Who Kills More, Religion or Atheism?

[Epimethean]

Actually, some of the best monsters have used logic extremely well, including the religious ones, so we would have to set logic aside as having no bearing on justice.

[Napoléon]

Atheists have already decided. You are just waiting for your Death Star to be fully operational.

Are you for real? A death star? LMFAO. I thought I'd heard it all, but you religious nuts just keep getting better! Keep up the good work man! LOL. Honestly, that is some funny shit.

[The Grand Nudger]

People (and a ton of other things as well) kill people. Fantasy stories about fairies don't have the power to pull a trigger. Lack of belief in faeries, also, cannot pull a trigger. Whatever religious reason is given for this or that it's ad-hoc. The person made the decision, and then justified it after the fact (though sometimes before the act). I can't imagine what reason an atheist would give for killing someone other than "I wanted/needed to" since, by definition, they have no one to blame.

[Watchman]

I was involved in a similar debate some time ago on another Forum with a guy who called himself Blackadder during the course of which I posted this , hope the numbers help....


"Now when it came to researching Religious Wars , I had several problems ,time was a major factor then there was the reliability of the sources , particularly the further back in time you go the less accurate the figures and the fewer the sources you find to check against.
So in order to complete the task in something like an acceptable time frame I limited my field of search to the period between the 16th century and the 20th century. I also chose to include only those conflicts with a solely religious cause. For instance I did not count the Battle of the Boyne campaign as I found that Protestant King William’s army had nearly as many catholics in it as Catholic King James’ army. Thus , whatever else the conflict was about it was not religion despite what many will tell you today.

Any way here is what I found …

In the 16th century there were four major religious conflicts… 3,100,000 dead.
Spanish Armada 1588. 30,000 dead.
Huguenot Wars (France) 1562-1598. 2,830,000 dead.
St. Bartholemews Day Massacre (France) 1572. 70,000 dead.
Dutch Revolt 1566-1609 100,000 dead.


In the 17th century there were three major religious conflicts… 8,405,000 dead.
English Civil War 1642-1646 868,000 dead.
Shimabara Revolt (Japan) 1637-1638 37,000 dead.
The Thirty Years War (Europe)1618-1648 7,500,000 dead.

In the 18th century there was one major religious conflict… 10,000 dead.
Massacre of Catholic Converts in Korea 1784-1794 10,000 dead.

In the 19th century there were six major religious conflicts… 25,780,000 dead.
Bahai Massacres (Persia) 1848-1854 20,000 dead.
Boxer Rebellion (China) 1899-1901. 115,000 dead.
Christian/Druse War (Lebanon) 1860 . 15,000 dead.
Mahdist Sudanese Wars 1881-1898 5,500,000 dead.
Taiping Rebellion (China) 1850-1864 20,000,000 dead.
Massacre of Catholic Converts in Vietnam 1832-1887 130,000 dead.

In the 20th century there were fourteen major religious conflicts… 1,278,887 dead.
Algerian Islamist Uprising 1992 100,000 dead.
Croatian War 1991-1992 25,000 dead.
Bosnian War 1992 -1995 175,000.
Hindu-Moslem riots in India 1992-2002 8,600 dead.
India/Pakistan Partition 1947 500,000 dead.
Iran Islamist Rebellion 1979 2,500 dead.
Iraq Shiite Rising 1991-1992 40,000 dead.
Lebanese War 1975-1992 150,000 dead.
Molluca Islands Christian/Muslim conflict 1999 - ? 5,000 dead.
Mongolia Stalinist destruction of Buddhism 1937-1939 30,000 dead.
Russian Pogroms 1905-1906 95,000 dead.
Nigeria Christian/Muslim conflict 1992- ? 53,787 dead.
Arab/Israeli Wars 1948- ? 78,000 dead.
Sikh uprising in India 1982-1991 16,000 dead.

Now Blackadder I have to disagree with your previous assertion that” your point is void of religion causing more disruption. “ IE that these wars would have happened anyway if religion did not exist.
Study the list ,check the facts , don’t just go with my figures …check for yourself …then you’ll see that each of these deaths is directly attributable to religion and would not have happened if religion did not exist….all those lives….all that human potential … wiped out for what..?
For nothing … for a con.
How many potential Mozarts , how many Einsteins ,how many Schweitzers ….
How much further advanced would civilisation be if these individuals had been able to have their input.

Odd that the number of “wars” dropped during the “Enlightenment” and even odder that the numbers are increasing now.
Also has anyone got any idea of what happened in 1992 where many of the current crop seem to have their roots.

[MilesTailsPrower]

Here's a video I found a few weeks ago, to add onto the list.

[Udaho]

I was involved in a similar debate some time ago on another Forum with a guy who called himself Blackadder during the course of which I posted this , hope the numbers help....

---

"Now when it came to researching Religious Wars , I had several problems ,time was a major factor then there was the reliability of the sources , particularly the further back in time you go the less accurate the figures and the fewer the sources you find to check against.
So in order to complete the task in something like an acceptable time frame I limited my field of search to the period between the 16th century and the 20th century. I also chose to include only those conflicts with a solely religious cause. For instance I did not count the Battle of the Boyne campaign as I found that Protestant King William’s army had nearly as many catholics in it as Catholic King James’ army. Thus , whatever else the conflict was about it was not religion despite what many will tell you today.

Any way here is what I found …

In the 16th century there were four major religious conflicts… 3,100,000 dead.
Spanish Armada 1588. 30,000 dead.
Huguenot Wars (France) 1562-1598. 2,830,000 dead.
St. Bartholemews Day Massacre (France) 1572. 70,000 dead.
Dutch Revolt 1566-1609 100,000 dead.


In the 17th century there were three major religious conflicts… 8,405,000 dead.
English Civil War 1642-1646 868,000 dead.
Shimabara Revolt (Japan) 1637-1638 37,000 dead.
The Thirty Years War (Europe)1618-1648 7,500,000 dead.

In the 18th century there was one major religious conflict… 10,000 dead.
Massacre of Catholic Converts in Korea 1784-1794 10,000 dead.

In the 19th century there were six major religious conflicts… 25,780,000 dead.
Bahai Massacres (Persia) 1848-1854 20,000 dead.
Boxer Rebellion (China) 1899-1901. 115,000 dead.
Christian/Druse War (Lebanon) 1860 . 15,000 dead.
Mahdist Sudanese Wars 1881-1898 5,500,000 dead.
Taiping Rebellion (China) 1850-1864 20,000,000 dead.
Massacre of Catholic Converts in Vietnam 1832-1887 130,000 dead.

In the 20th century there were fourteen major religious conflicts… 1,278,887 dead.
Algerian Islamist Uprising 1992 100,000 dead.
Croatian War 1991-1992 25,000 dead.
Bosnian War 1992 -1995 175,000.
Hindu-Moslem riots in India 1992-2002 8,600 dead.
India/Pakistan Partition 1947 500,000 dead.
Iran Islamist Rebellion 1979 2,500 dead.
Iraq Shiite Rising 1991-1992 40,000 dead.
Lebanese War 1975-1992 150,000 dead.
Molluca Islands Christian/Muslim conflict 1999 - ? 5,000 dead.
Mongolia Stalinist destruction of Buddhism 1937-1939 30,000 dead.
Russian Pogroms 1905-1906 95,000 dead.
Nigeria Christian/Muslim conflict 1992- ? 53,787 dead.
Arab/Israeli Wars 1948- ? 78,000 dead.
Sikh uprising in India 1982-1991 16,000 dead.

---

Now Blackadder I have to disagree with your previous assertion that” your point is void of religion causing more disruption. “ IE that these wars would have happened anyway if religion did not exist.
Study the list ,check the facts , don’t just go with my figures …check for yourself …then you’ll see that each of these deaths is directly attributable to religion and would not have happened if religion did not exist….all those lives….all that human potential … wiped out for what..?
For nothing … for a con.
How many potential Mozarts , how many Einsteins ,how many Schweitzers ….
How much further advanced would civilisation be if these individuals had been able to have their input.

Odd that the number of “wars” dropped during the “Enlightenment” and even odder that the numbers are increasing now.
Also has anyone got any idea of what happened in 1992 where many of the current crop seem to have their roots.

And yet both World Wars, which were relatively secular affairs, top all those estimates combined. Then there all those babies that were aborted and the Third World depopulation programs that have killed millions. Add to that the millions of pollution related deaths caused by secularists who figured out a better mousetrap. And to top it all off, there is still a major world depopulation to go through because the secularists think that our planet is overwhelmed and the choo choo frog is endangered. Also, I almost forgot WW3 and that will be started to get rid of all the Islams, in the world.

[Anymouse]

People (and a ton of other things as well) kill people. Fantasy stories about fairies don't have the power to pull a trigger. Lack of belief in faeries, also, cannot pull a trigger. Whatever religious reason is given for this or that it's ad-hoc. The person made the decision, and then justified it after the fact (though sometimes before the act). I can't imagine what reason an atheist would give for killing someone other than "I wanted/needed to" since, by definition, they have no one to blame.

Perhaps books do not have the power to kill a person. Neither does propaganda.

However, things such as the Inquisition or witch killings today in Africa are not perversions of Christianity, they are expressions of it.

After all, when you truly believe that the immortal soul is doomed to an eternity of damnation, what is a small amount of suffering here on Earth if the point is to save it?

Ideas kill. They kill because they draw fanatics. True it is the fanatic that pulls the trigger, the rack, or the witchduck, but without the ideas the fanatic would not express them. And ideas, whether speech or in a book, are formulated by people. The shooter is merely the accomplice.

The argument runs now in the Gabrielle Giffords shooting if Sarah Palin's Website with its crosshairs on Democrats' photos incited the violence against her. Naturally Sarah Palin maintains no. The shooter himself is never likely to have a coherent day in court. Like Dr. Tiller's assassin, who gunned him down in church, he will claim his religious views guided him. Ideas do kill.

And religious radicals are not going to check their religion at the Capitol steps if they get elected. And though they might be 430 odd representatives and 100 senators, they rule over us all. I will make damn sure whomever I vote for is not a "letter of the Bible belivin' Christian." I don't want to go to the witchduck next. And when the Fundamentalist hold the keys to are nuclear arsenal, and the awesome power to bring about the Armageddon they actually pray for, you don't think they won't use it? You have a skewed knowledge of human history if you believe that.

And to a lesser extent, ideas can hold back a society just as well as destroy one. In how many districts today in the United States, if a candidate held forth to the public openly and honestly that they were Wiccan, or atheist Goddess forbid, even with the best economic or political ideas, do you think the Fundamentalist voters will put aside their difference in religion to vote for that candidate, or do you think they would stand a better chance of winning the Powerball? Or more likely, would they not live to election day, when some kook like the fellow who knocked off Dr. Tiller in Kansas decides you're the AntiChrist and God has given them the means to stop you?

James
PS: the world is overpopulated. But Christians pray for Armageddon, they want the destruction of the world, it heralds the coming of their Saviour. Oh yes, ideas kill, and the idea that overpopulation is a myth will kill us all. Robert Heinlein once calculated that at the present birth rate, the population of Earth will exceed its mass in about fifty or so more years. If population is not controlled, everywhere, fully, and religions aren't gotten out of the more babies business, that'll be our Armageddon. Or more likely, when the world of starving people outnumber and outgun the rest of us, and have nothing else to lose, that will be. This isn't prophecy, it is cold mathematics. Even Christians can count. And folk like Quivverful are counting their allies, and making as many more as possible.

If they are so "pro-life," why do so many Christians oppose contraception and abortion yet support the death penalty? Christian support of the death penalty is the strongest argument against using it. Gotta make sure the next Inquisition is legal.