Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?

[ukatheist]

Once the brain is dead there can not be anything coming from it.
Nor NDEs nor hallucinations.
Nothing that is why an NDE can only come from the consciousness that get disconnected from a dead body.  

So if the brain is dead, 'so dead that nothing can come from it', how does it then come back to life to enable people to tell their story? Because, if it has come back to life, then it wasn't 'so dead that nothing could come from it' was it?

[robvalue]

[Little Rik]

Once the brain is dead there can not be anything coming from it.
Nor NDEs nor hallucinations.
Nothing that is why an NDE can only come from the consciousness that get disconnected from a dead body.  

So if the brain is dead, 'so dead that nothing can come from it', how does it then come back to life to enable people to tell their story? Because, if it has come back to life, then it wasn't 'so dead that nothing could come from it' was it?

When you turn off the engine of your car and you get out the car is dead.
It can not do anything.
Nothing at all but when you come back inside the car and start the car again then the car can move.

Something like that happen when you may have an NDE experience so your body-brain can function once again.
However these kind of experiences can only be allowed by God for a good reason.
Not everybody can get in and out the same body for no reason.  

[Aegon]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

You'll summons it!!!  ?

Hey OP, you might want to wade through this.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-41204.ht...ward+storm

Don't fret LFC, it's just the ghost.

Heheheh

I once had a near-death experience. I was being operated on when my heart stopped. I was legally dead for over 3 minutes. In those minutes, I experienced something pretty surreal and it affects me to this day. I no longer felt limited by my body. I was the most relaxed I had ever been. I became hyper-aware of everything that was going on in the universe, but it wasn't an overwhelming feeling. It was the most peaceful I had ever felt. I saw everything at once. I shifted my view up into the stars and I heard a voice. Well, I didn't really hear it so much as I felt it within me. It said, in a calm, smooth tone, "Howard Storm is a hack."

And then I came to.

[Little Rik]

ROBERTOOOO  

Couldn't you tell me before that you have no consciousness?
Now I know why you act as a zombie strange-funny chap.

---

Fool.  

What the G-LOC has to do with hallucinations or NDEs?
G-LOC is like when Joe the boxer punch you in the head and you go in some sort of coma for a while.
It is you yog that mix up the subject not me.  

In fact my previous post was 100% on the subject.
By saying that when you die the bacteria take over this means that chemical reactions happen all over body and brain so those researchers were tricked by these chemical reactions into believing that there
is activity in the brain and the brain was still able to put together some sort of activity which is not the case.

Once the brain is dead there can not be anything coming from it.
Nor NDEs nor hallucinations.
Nothing that is why an NDE can only come from the consciousness that get disconnected from a dead body.  

You're an idiot.  You were shown to be wrong so you start blabbing incoherent shit.

Well you're done.  Your NDE evidence is a pile of shit.   Pam Reynolds and Howard Storm both had fully functional brains when they had their NDEs.  And it's entirely possible for hallucinations to be clear, sharp, and realistic, as shown.  In none of this have you offered any evidence for your nonsensical objections.  The researchers were dealing with live subjects, not dead ones.

You're wrong.  NDEs don't prove anything about life after death.  End of story.  And that's all the evidence you have of anything.  You've got no other evidence for karma and reincarnation and this whole "how the system works."  Your entire worldview was pulled out of Sarkar's ass.

For the hundred of time you fail again.      

Physical science has yet to prove that it can understand what is behind such a science such as the NDEs
experiences.
Even a professional neurosurgeon as Eben Alexander could not understand UNTIL he himself had one of such an experience.
Keep on looking in the night with your torch for evidence that confirm that physical science can understand NDEs and then come back here.
In the meantime get real and stop chasing fantasies.  

[Angrboda]

You're an idiot.  You were shown to be wrong so you start blabbing incoherent shit.

Well you're done.  Your NDE evidence is a pile of shit.   Pam Reynolds and Howard Storm both had fully functional brains when they had their NDEs.  And it's entirely possible for hallucinations to be clear, sharp, and realistic, as shown.  In none of this have you offered any evidence for your nonsensical objections.  The researchers were dealing with live subjects, not dead ones.

You're wrong.  NDEs don't prove anything about life after death.  End of story.  And that's all the evidence you have of anything.  You've got no other evidence for karma and reincarnation and this whole "how the system works."  Your entire worldview was pulled out of Sarkar's ass.

For the hundred of time you fail again.      

Physical science has yet to prove that it can understand what is behind such a science such as the NDEs
experiences.
Even a professional neurosurgeon as Eben Alexander could not understand UNTIL he himself had one of such an experience.
Keep on looking in the night with your torch for evidence that confirm that physical science can understand NDEs and then come back here.
In the meantime get real and stop chasing fantasies.  

Having an NDE doesn't tell you anything about the causes of an NDE. Neither you nor Eben Alexander can tell you when he had his NDE.

... "everything – absolutely everything – in Alexander's account rests on repeated assertions that his visions of heaven occurred while his cerebral cortex was 'shut down', 'inactivated', 'completely shut down', 'totally offline', and 'stunned to complete inactivity'. The evidence he provides for this claim is not only inadequate – it suggests that he doesn't know anything about the relevant brain science."[16] "Even in cases where the brain is alleged to have shut down, its activity must return if the subject is to survive and describe the experience. In such cases, there is generally no way to establish that the NDE occurred while the brain was offline."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Alexander_(author)

In a 2013 investigation of Alexander's story and medical background, Esquire magazine reported that before the publication of Proof of Heaven, Alexander had been terminated or suspended from multiple hospital positions, and had been the subject of several malpractice lawsuits, including at least two involving the alteration of medical records to cover up a medical error.[13][14] The magazine also found what it claimed were discrepancies with regard to Alexander's version of events in the book. Among the discrepancies, according to an account of the Esquire article in Forbes, was that "Alexander writes that he slipped into the coma as a result of severe bacterial meningitis and had no higher brain activity, while a doctor who cared for him says the coma was medically induced and the patient was conscious, though hallucinating".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Alexander_(author)

Once again, your evidence is crap. Alexander was hallucinating before being put into a medically induced coma.

You've got nothing but a bunch of empty words, as usual.

---

An example of Eben Alexander's reliability as a source:

For example, on March 1, 2007, a fifty-four-year-old tobacco farmer from a small town outside of Lynchburg visited Dr. Alexander, complaining of pain in his neck and trapezius and upper arm. Alexander conducted a physical examination and inspected some MRI imagery and told the patient that he recommended a spinal decompression surgery that would involve fusing his fifth and sixth vertebrae. The patient agreed to the surgery, and several months later, on June 27, 2007, Alexander performed it.

He did something wrong. Instead of fusing the farmer's fifth and sixth vertebrae, he fused his fourth and fifth. He did not realize his mistake at first. When he dictated the operative report, he recorded that the "MRI scan showed significant disk bulge and disk osteophyte complex compression at C5-6 mainly the left side," and then described an operation on those vertebrae, instead of the vertebrae he had actually operated on.

On July 12, he had his first follow-up appointment with the farmer. He reviewed the postoperative X-rays. He noticed his mistake. He didn't tell his patient. Instead, after his patient went home, he pulled the operative report up on his computer and edited it. Now the report read that the MRI scan had showed disk bulge at both C4-5 and C5-6, and that "we had discussed possible C5-6 as well as C4-5 decompression, finally deciding on C4-5 decompression." Then he simply found every subsequent reference in the report to C5-6 and changed it to C4-5.

After he finished editing the report, it read as though he hadn't done anything wrong at all.

During a third follow-up meeting, in October, Alexander finally confessed, and told the patient that if he wanted another operation he could have it for free. It is unclear exactly when Lynchburg General Hospital learned of Alexander's mistake, but by the end of October he no longer had surgical privileges at the hospital.

On August 6, 2008, the patient filed a $3 million lawsuit against Alexander, accusing him of negligence, battery, spoliation, and fraud. The purported cover-up, the changes Alexander had made to the surgical report, was a major aspect of the suit. Once again, a lawyer was accusing Alexander of altering the historical record when the historical record didn't fit the story he wanted to tell.

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/int...e-prophet/

[Cyberman]

Rik, does it embarrass you that your entire case is totally dependent on the testimony of people who not only have a proven track record of lying, but who also have a vested interest in lying and an agenda to sell you?

That's a rhetorical question, by the way, intended to spotlight your credulous dishonesty for all to see. Of course it doesn't embarrass you; you are utterly without shame.

[arda101]

ROBERTOOOO  

Couldn't you tell me before that you have no consciousness?  
Now I know why you act as a zombie strange-funny chap.

---

You're an idiot.  You were shown to be wrong so you start blabbing incoherent shit.

Well you're done.  Your NDE evidence is a pile of shit.   Pam Reynolds and Howard Storm both had fully functional brains when they had their NDEs.  And it's entirely possible for hallucinations to be clear, sharp, and realistic, as shown.  In none of this have you offered any evidence for your nonsensical objections.  The researchers were dealing with live subjects, not dead ones.

You're wrong.  NDEs don't prove anything about life after death.  End of story.  And that's all the evidence you have of anything.  You've got no other evidence for karma and reincarnation and this whole "how the system works."  Your entire worldview was pulled out of Sarkar's ass.

For the hundred of time you fail again.      

Physical science has yet to prove that it can understand what is behind such a science such as the NDEs
experiences.
Even a professional neurosurgeon as Eben Alexander could not understand UNTIL he himself had one of such an experience.
Keep on looking in the night with your torch for evidence that confirm that physical science can understand NDEs and then come back here.
In the meantime get real and stop chasing fantasies.  

LOOOOOOL haha good job Rik. I actually somewhat believed these NDEs, hence why I posted so many questions about them. However, I hadn't checked this post in a few days. You are hilarious kiddo! Your stupidity on this form has actually given me less reason to believe these NDEs. Jörmungandr and some of the other logical people on this form have torn you to shreds. To be honest, your arguments are all wishful thinking, and that is beyond shameful. Every time I see the name "Little Rik" I will get a chuckle. Thank you for allowing me to "find the light" ;-)
Just kidding Rik, we all know you are the smartest and most logical on this forum. I bow to the master. 
Oh excuse me, I forgot " "

[robvalue]

He's our very own Deepak Chopra.

I spent a long time trying to get through to him, but it's just relentless. It's like his mind has turned inwards and he is exploring some imaginary reality. One that behaves exactly how he wants it to.

The stamina Jorm has to continue to take him to task is extremely impressive!

[Little Rik]

Rik, does it embarrass you that your entire case is totally dependent on the testimony of people who not only have a proven track record of lying, but who also have a vested interest in lying and an agenda to sell you?

That's a rhetorical question, by the way, intended to spotlight your credulous dishonesty for all to see. Of course it doesn't embarrass you; you are utterly without shame.

Gee, I didn't know that these people.........have a vested interest in lying and an agenda to sell me.....

Stim you are my savior.  
Please Stim tell me about the agenda.  
Don't let LR die in agony waiting for your answer.  

---

For the hundred of time you fail again.      

Physical science has yet to prove that it can understand what is behind such a science such as the NDEs
experiences.
Even a professional neurosurgeon as Eben Alexander could not understand UNTIL he himself had one of such an experience.
Keep on looking in the night with your torch for evidence that confirm that physical science can understand NDEs and then come back here.
In the meantime get real and stop chasing fantasies.  

Having an NDE doesn't tell you anything about the causes of an NDE.  Neither you nor Eben Alexander can tell you when he had his NDE.

... "everything – absolutely everything – in Alexander's account rests on repeated assertions that his visions of heaven occurred while his cerebral cortex was 'shut down', 'inactivated', 'completely shut down', 'totally offline', and 'stunned to complete inactivity'. The evidence he provides for this claim is not only inadequate – it suggests that he doesn't know anything about the relevant brain science."[16] "Even in cases where the brain is alleged to have shut down, its activity must return if the subject is to survive and describe the experience. In such cases, there is generally no way to establish that the NDE occurred while the brain was offline."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Alexander_(author)

In a 2013 investigation of Alexander's story and medical background, Esquire magazine reported that before the publication of Proof of Heaven, Alexander had been terminated or suspended from multiple hospital positions, and had been the subject of several malpractice lawsuits, including at least two involving the alteration of medical records to cover up a medical error.[13][14] The magazine also found what it claimed were discrepancies with regard to Alexander's version of events in the book. Among the discrepancies, according to an account of the Esquire article in Forbes, was that "Alexander writes that he slipped into the coma as a result of severe bacterial meningitis and had no higher brain activity, while a doctor who cared for him says the coma was medically induced and the patient was conscious, though hallucinating".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Alexander_(author)

Once again, your evidence is crap.  Alexander was hallucinating before being put into a medically induced coma.

You've got nothing but a bunch of empty words, as usual.

---

An example of Eben Alexander's reliability as a source:

For example, on March 1, 2007, a fifty-four-year-old tobacco farmer from a small town outside of Lynchburg visited Dr. Alexander, complaining of pain in his neck and trapezius and upper arm. Alexander conducted a physical examination and inspected some MRI imagery and told the patient that he recommended a spinal decompression surgery that would involve fusing his fifth and sixth vertebrae. The patient agreed to the surgery, and several months later, on June 27, 2007, Alexander performed it.

He did something wrong. Instead of fusing the farmer's fifth and sixth vertebrae, he fused his fourth and fifth. He did not realize his mistake at first. When he dictated the operative report, he recorded that the "MRI scan showed significant disk bulge and disk osteophyte complex compression at C5-6 mainly the left side," and then described an operation on those vertebrae, instead of the vertebrae he had actually operated on.

On July 12, he had his first follow-up appointment with the farmer. He reviewed the postoperative X-rays. He noticed his mistake. He didn't tell his patient. Instead, after his patient went home, he pulled the operative report up on his computer and edited it. Now the report read that the MRI scan had showed disk bulge at both C4-5 and C5-6, and that "we had discussed possible C5-6 as well as C4-5 decompression, finally deciding on C4-5 decompression." Then he simply found every subsequent reference in the report to C5-6 and changed it to C4-5.

After he finished editing the report, it read as though he hadn't done anything wrong at all.

During a third follow-up meeting, in October, Alexander finally confessed, and told the patient that if he wanted another operation he could have it for free. It is unclear exactly when Lynchburg General Hospital learned of Alexander's mistake, but by the end of October he no longer had surgical privileges at the hospital.

On August 6, 2008, the patient filed a $3 million lawsuit against Alexander, accusing him of negligence, battery, spoliation, and fraud. The purported cover-up, the changes Alexander had made to the surgical report, was a major aspect of the suit. Once again, a lawyer was accusing Alexander of altering the historical record when the historical record didn't fit the story he wanted to tell.

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/int...e-prophet/

FOOL.  

1) Alexander may or may have not done a mistake on a patient but what this has to do with his NDE experience?
If he did a mistake that may well be attributed to fatigue.
Quite often doctors and surgeons are asked to stay behind their working hours because the hospital can not find anybody else to replace them.
I know this very well because I work in the sector so I wouldn't build up a drama even if the patient had to suffer a lot.
If anyone make a drama out of it then he or she is a total idiot.

2) If medical science would know what is behind their science such as what happen when the consciousness separate from the body-mind then we can not longer call it medical science but medical-consciousness science.

You never thought about it Yog, did you?  


Oh, by the way can you explain me what is the difference between an hallucination and an NDE?