National Service

[The Grand Nudger]

Alot of people here seem to be against other things that they then attach to "it".

[Sterben]

Were talking about a national service, not military conscription.  The closest system would be, for example, the system that abaris mentioned earlier in the thread, not a draft.
(besides, we already have one of those, it's called the selective service, lol)

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Fun aside, small sample size....but the percentage of respondants to this survey who;ve indicated a willingness or openess to mandatory civil service is already larger...many times over, than the number of people who actually volunteer for -any- type of service.  So far, it seems, the notion that atheists are something other than civil minded contributors willing to serve isn't doing so well, on these boards at least.   

It would take every active member and then some responding in the negative to even approach the low number of current voluntary servicemembers in the us relative to the GP.

      I'm aware, but national service harbors to closely to the systems mentioned above. The culture we have has allowed to many freedoms for the U.S to be a good country for such a system to used. It could abused in many ways by the corporate elites for free or cheap labor.

[The Grand Nudger]

      I'm aware, but national service harbors to closely to the systems mentioned above. The culture we have has allowed to many freedoms for the U.S to be a good country for such a system to used. It could abused in many ways by the corporate elites for free or cheap labor.

So long as the interest of the corporate elites were aligned with the interests of the nation...not a problem.  Minor correction, though..cheap..absolutely (the idea is that the reduced labor rateis offset by desirable arrangements and benefits...and, ofc, by civic pride and duty)........ free, absolutely not.  Were not talking about slavery, we're talking about a national service.

Government -itself- can be abused in many ways, that's not actually an objection to having one.

The idea of a national service is to -further- support all those things that you think makes america great. To give us the practical ability to continue to fulfill and expand our promise and freedoms. Our culture already includes and is based upon notions of civic duty, we tell people that that's what makes our country great. A national service is a formal recognition and application -of- our culture.

[downbeatplumb]

You know how you could quickly get all the people you'd need to build your little fence?  Get those refugees into the civil service.

Service confers citizenship.

This is from starship troopers.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm glad a couple of folks caught on to that.  

It's also a cornerstone of military service in the United States with regards to foreign and domestic nationals (american samoa, for example). Yet another inducement to national service, plus, it would shut up the bigots who think that immigrants (or the domestic poor) have no purchase on their adopted home. They put in their 18 months building and supporting our nation..and are full citizens thereafter.

(one of the arguments for a national service is to produce a common sense of civic duty and shared experience)

[Cato]

You should display civic duty by spending quality time with the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

[The Grand Nudger]

We're not talking about slavery or involuntary servitude.  How many time does that have to be said? In any national service that would be legal in the us..even a compulsory one..you could opt out.

There is absolutely nothing that's intrinsically unconstitutional about a national service. We've flirted with the idea of establishing one, more than just a handful of times. That has never been an issue. It would be expensive. It would be difficult to establish or enforce. It would fall heavily upon the poor. It could be argued that it establishes a second class citizen status. It could devalue private enterprise.

[Sterben]

      I'm aware, but national service harbors to closely to the systems mentioned above. The culture we have has allowed to many freedoms for the U.S to be a good country for such a system to used. It could abused in many ways by the corporate elites for free or cheap labor.

So long as the interest of the corporate elites were aligned with the interests of the nation...not a problem.  Minor correction, though..cheap..absolutely (the idea is that the reduced labor rateis offset by desirable arrangements and benefits...and, ofc, by civic pride and duty)........ free, absolutely not.  Were not talking about slavery, we're talking about a national service.

Government -itself- can be abused in many ways, that's not actually an objection to having one.

The idea of a national service is to -further- support all those things that you think makes america great.   To give us the practical ability to continue to fulfill and expand our promise and freedoms.  Our culture already includes and is based upon notions of civic duty, we tell people that that's what makes our country great.  A national service is a formal recognition and application -of- our culture.

        What if one does not wish to serve in National Service? Say for instance you want to focus on your own career. Four years out of your life to help other in the service of the betterment of your country is a big chunk out of possible experience's you would need to advance your own needs. You would better off making it an option for people from lower income families. Offering  an insensitive to rise out of a lower income and acquiring a skill set which can help them benefit their country beyond the scope of being a being a tax payer and being a burden of the system.

        If you can rise out the system to have a future other then being on E.B.T and government assisted housing, that should the be the ultimate goal of a National Service.

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You know how you could quickly get all the people you'd need to build your little fence?  Get those refugees into the civil service.

Service confers citizenship.

This is from starship troopers.

       If your going to use this a standard of "Federal" or "National" service, most people would remain civilians other then risking their very lives in order to gain the right to vote or other privileges.  If I was asked, I would decline and stay out of the political system. It always causes too many issues among the populations. There will always be brave and men who stand up will called for such duties. While the majority stay silent in order to protect themselves, first and foremost it's only rational to protect yourself. If you were in gas station, and gunshots were going off, would you do most anything to get out of their first? If you had to push an old lady into the shooter in order to save your life, would you feel guilty cause she died and you made to your car and drove off as fast as you could?

[account_inactive]

You should display civic duty by spending quality time with the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

I'm not American.

[Cato]

You should display civic duty by spending quality time with the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

I'm not American.

I wasn't responding to you. I was responding to the post immediately above my submission.