Trans people & sports

[I_am_not_mafia]

I wasn't calling for restriction free competition. I wasn't calling for anything. Ptofessional sport bores me.

Question. What's stopping cisgendered women athletes taking male hormones?

I seem to remember rather butch female Olympic athletes from the Soviet union in the 80's.

I think the only fair restrictions would require extensive hormone profiling for everyone throughout their career.

[surreptitious57]

I do like the idea of trans competing with other trans as a solution to the problem advantage confers in competing with cis athletes
But although a practical solution it still gives the appearance of segregation. So the best people to ask about this are trans athletes
themselves. And so then if they prefer to compete with cis athletes instead of other trans then it should be an ideal to aim towards
This could be complicated by the fact that like any demographic there may not be universal agreement within the trans community
about this. Now it is a relatively new problem and so it is likely to involve lots of trial and error before a solution is found. And also
those responsible for making any decision will be those in positions of power within the governing bodies of all the sports involved

[I_am_not_mafia]

Stop being histrionic Shell. How many sports involve beating in faces?

Nice try. We were literally talking about a specific sport where that happens and a trans woman was dominating a few pages back before you decided to declare the topic unfit for conversation and derail the thread.

You are also wrong in that women can fight as well as men,  just differently according to body type.

Bullshit. There is absolutely no evidence to back this up. Also, you worded that shit, so I assume you mean women can't fight as well as men. Take an elite MMA fighter and pit her against an elite male MMA fighter in the same weight class and see what happens. All else equal except gender and there is no competition.

Ciswoman vs ciswoman in combat will still get equally damaged. Suggesting that women can't punch or kick properly is wrong and insulting to all women trained in combat sports / arts.

Are you high? Who said women can't punch or kick properly?

I have personally trained women in thai boxing.

Congratulations? Fight men and get back to me on that.

You have also deliberately ignored the fact that post-op on hormones transwomen will lose any physical advantage of having had a  male body  both in muscle mass and yes also bone structure if given enough time. A year is not enough. Your deliberately selective and emotive examples suggest an alternative agenda.

Firstly, I didn't ignore anything. I've said time and again that I'm not sure if the advantage is there, and I would like to see a scientific study on that, not some random on the Internet assuring me that she is a thai boxer and an endocrinologist. You can think I have an "alternative agenda" all day long. It won't change the facts. You know, this could have been a logical conversation had you not snubbed your nose at it. I am not, and have not been for several pages, interested in discussing the details of this topic with you. Your angry leftist rants are as insane as any angry right-wing rant to me. What could I possibly get out of entertaining you?

Yes I did 'word that shit', but unlike you I went back and corrected myself while finding typing very difficult because of my first attack of multiple fucking sclerosis meaning I can only now type with one fucking finger.

And yes I did fight against men and have had my arse handed to me by other women.

[Shell B]

Ptofessional sport bores me.

[Pitsligo]

This whole thread reminds me of the time the UK's House of Lords debated laws to deal with trans issues. They went into a shitload of detail on inheritance and if lords would become ladies, effectively raising issues that affect almost no one to make it seem like there's wider concerns on the issue.

It was bullshit then and it's bullshit on this thread. Just stop being arseholes to trans people.

[Shell B]

There are people in this thread who are assholes to trans people? I didn't realize.

What if a trans person is being an asshole? Is it okay then to be an asshole to a trans person? What if I am a trans person? Can I be an asshole to a trans person? What if I have a health condition? Can I be an asshole then?

Trans people in sport affect almost no one? It would seem *if* there is an effect that it affects every person who competes with that individual.

Who knew just talking about something could be so triggering?

[Catholic_Lady]

Having the opinion that it isn't fair for mtf folks to compete in a physical sport against other woman because they have a male advantage over them is "being an arsehole" to trans ppl?

Some of these responses couldn't be any more far left if they tried. Seriously people, be reasonable. No one here is being an arsehole to anyone else.

...except maybe the person accusing me of being an arsehole for my opinion, ironically enough. If it wasn't so cliche and overused, I'd be tempted to say "this is why Trump won." Sheesh.

[Little lunch]

My brother is big on sports. I, like Mathilda find professional sports boring as fuck.
If my brother became a woman and they suddenly stopped him from competing I would feel very sorry for him.
I would probably support him in the effort to be able to compete.
But what if my daughter starts to play sport.
I start taking her to sporting events, training, spending money on supplements and expensive coaches.
She goes into a competition after years of training and ends up losing to a girl who used to be a guy.
Well, of course I would be pissed off.
This is not a black and white subject and the answers won't come in a dismissive sentence or two from either side.

[Shell B]

My brother is big on sports. I, like Mathilda find professional sports boring as fuck.
If my brother became a woman and they suddenly stopped him from competing I would feel very sorry for him.
I would probably support him in the effort to be able to compete.
But what if my daughter starts to play sport.
I start taking her to sporting events, training, spending money on supplements and expensive coaches.
She goes into a competition after years of training and ends up losing to a girl who used to be a guy.
Well, of course I would be pissed off.
This is not a black and white subject and the answers won't come in a dismissive sentence or two from either side.

. . . and that's the side I'm on. I don't think anyone has said they think we should just say fuck trans athletes and do nothing for them.

[I_am_not_mafia]

What's wrong with stringent hormone profiling over the course of an athlete's career for both trans and cisgendered to make sure that there is zero advantage? If you have that then what else is there to discuss?