There is no doubt a god, the question is what is it?

[Jehanne]

Venus and the full moon. Such a simple sight.

This is a physical impossibility.

---

Who are the "chosen ones" and how do you know that they are not mentally ill and/or are just charlatans who are out to deceive you or others?

You posed a good question.... but before I write so much, to respond to this I want to ask what you prefer:

1. Summarize the stance but not prove it (just simply answer the question).
2. Prove and go into details.

Let me know.

I'll take #2.

[Minimalist]

That would certainly be a change from the walls of pointless shit he has posted, wouldn't it.  My guess is that it won't pass muster as evidence.  Too much "you must find allah" bullshit..... and allah isn't there.

[WinterHold]

Brian

It's never about people themselves; but the ideas they adopt and believe.

I don't seek to cure the OP or the atheists here. 

Sura 6, Page 141
( 106 )   Follow, [O Muhammad], what has been revealed to you from your Lord - there is no deity except Him - and turn away from those who associate others with Allah.
( 107 )   But if Allah had willed, they would not have associated. And We have not appointed you over them as a guardian, nor are you a manager over them.

I am not a manager over you; Brian. Or over the OP. 
It's the path of extremism and religious fanaticism. 

Personal freedom is something sacred. We are not supposed to force anything on anybody.
Not even by trick.

Mysticnight

Quranists are not Muslims according to most Muslims, but that is another story, I don't know whether we should consider them Muslims or not. He hates all Muslims who don't interpret the book by desires and aren't in favor for abandoning the Sunnah (way) of the Prophet.

I can prove that the Ulil-Amr are the 12 Imams by Quran, but he is not interested in that discussion.

And he seeking honor from you guys by attacking me does nothing for him.

Wait a second....The real honor is in me not being a part of the blood thirsty "Umma" with its sects.
You Muslims stack muddy shit in your homelands, then when you meet a westerner, you lie about how wonderful your homeland is, but then cry and bitch about how "oppressed" you are to get a Visa to the west.

So the honor I get is leaving you behind to rot with your "Umma".

There's this verse:

Sura 30, Page 407, The Quran:
( 31 )   [Adhere to it], turning in repentance to Him, and fear Him and establish prayer and do not be of those who associate others with Allah
( 32 )   [Or] of those who have divided their religion and become sects, every faction rejoicing in what it has.

Go to your faction. Be happy with them. I'm so honored to stay away from you.
In other words; I don't care. I'm not a manager over you.

But don't you ever swim in fish oil to dodge arguments easily, and come preach me into your faction in this childish, spammy way. 
Your attitude is the reason the Middle East is eating itself for 1400 years.

[Joods]

---

The fact that Atheism movement didn't take this into account, and used a circular definition with respect to religion and gods....speaks volumes of the ignorance they plunge themselves and try to dictate to the world.

It's like they never even opened up the Bible to see what is in it,  just criticize all it teaches, without understanding what it says.   

Had they sincerity in this question with religion, they would of said, something on the lines of "we don't have proof of a person Creator but by all ways religions defined idolatry, we cannot be under that definition of worshiping things lesser then a supreme being by that definition, and if religion is what pertains to that which we worship, then we cannot be but with a religion that is decided by us".

But the fact is you want to take on this "we disbelieve in all religions" which really translates to "I believe in my own self-made religion". You see it's not attractive when the truth of these words are seen for what they are.

You complain of Christians who say "no religion, all we need is Jesus and relationship with him", yet the very fact you can't see how religion is defined in non-circular manner,  no human has no religion. The question only is are they going to submit to God or make up their religion by their desires out of ignorance?

How you decide you ought to live, whether, it is well thought of or chaotic day to day intuition and changes as you go, will become your religion....because you value yourself the most and the other things as far as it relates to valuing yourself, and religion is nothing but the path one believes and follows with respect to to what one values the most....

You cannot do away with religion in any sense.

And when it is presented like that people will think.... so should we all make our own religion as we go?

You see it put's you on equal intellectual grounds. But that it too absurd for you to simply see yourself as the rest of people, all with love valuing something the most, seeking purpose and meaning, and have beliefs and a creed which is but your answer to the fundamental questions of what makes us human.

Presenting yourself as the unique way out of false religions to no religions, is convenient but either not very well thought of (in reality it's blindly followed) or it's dishonest.

---

Nice to see you have failed miserably at lumping all atheists together. You really should stop drinking the kool-aid.

[GrandizerII]

God sees no need for people to worship him for himself, there is no loss if we don't worship him to him, and no benefit if we worship him to him, the benefit is for us.

It seems more like you benefit from me worshiping your God, lol. But I really can't be bothered with this worship crap. I only have one lifetime, after all, and I don't plan on wasting it doing silly shit.

Do you fall in love with someone before? Isn't that a great feeling. Well God unites all treasures in everyone in perfect oneness and perfect balance, and falling in love with the most perfect being will do wonders more than falling in love with people who change for better or worse, who commitment to us can be broken any time, and even if they changed only for better, they can die and be taken away from us, and so God knowing how much we are in need of love would connect us to him by a perfect connecting link at all times (known as the witness/leader/guide/face of God/name of God).

I do love someone, and I love her because she is not perfect. Narcissists repel me in real life, so I avoid any sort of intimate relationship with them.

Connecting us to him and having a guiding witness who can perfect our manners and talents, and knows the secret of our talents better then ourselves, is a great favor.

This is some disturbing shit you keep spouting. Is everything going well in your life, MK?

The honor one get's from being helped by the Guide and Witness of time, and the beautiful love relationship gained in that, is a huge favor.

Says your opinion only. I know what I honor, and this is not one of them.

I take it you believe in love to the say least...... The greatest being the Creator in his wisdom has made all creation bound to him and glorify him through his link that connects them to the Unseen Glory and beauty of God be it a far scent or be it bright like the sun in the midday.

I don't believe in love, but I do feel it for certain people in my life. As for the rest of the babble quoted here, means nothing to me. Just the usual MK poetic bullshit.

Why would it be greater for God to disconnect himself from us and not bound us to love hi,m why would it be greater to make us ignorant of the great treasure in existence and not value him as he ought to be valued?

The way I see it, it would be greater for God to disconnect from any sentient person who does not want anything to do with them. Do you agree with anyone forcing themselves into someone's life without their consent? I don't. And I also don't enable someone to force themselves onto others. Because that's just disrespect, and the opposite of love.

[The Valkyrie]

---

The fact that Atheism movement didn't take this into account, and used a circular definition with respect to religion and gods....speaks volumes of the ignorance they plunge themselves and try to dictate to the world.

It's like they never even opened up the Bible to see what is in it,  just criticize all it teaches, without understanding what it says.   

Had they sincerity in this question with religion, they would of said, something on the lines of "we don't have proof of a person Creator but by all ways religions defined idolatry, we cannot be under that definition of worshiping things lesser then a supreme being by that definition, and if religion is what pertains to that which we worship, then we cannot be but with a religion that is decided by us".

But the fact is you want to take on this "we disbelieve in all religions" which really translates to "I believe in my own self-made religion". You see it's not attractive when the truth of these words are seen for what they are.

You complain of Christians who say "no religion, all we need is Jesus and relationship with him", yet the very fact you can't see how religion is defined in non-circular manner,  no human has no religion. The question only is are they going to submit to God or make up their religion by their desires out of ignorance?

How you decide you ought to live, whether, it is well thought of or chaotic day to day intuition and changes as you go, will become your religion....because you value yourself the most and the other things as far as it relates to valuing yourself, and religion is nothing but the path one believes and follows with respect to to what one values the most....

You cannot do away with religion in any sense.

And when it is presented like that people will think.... so should we all make our own religion as we go?

You see it put's you on equal intellectual grounds. But that it too absurd for you to simply see yourself as the rest of people, all with love valuing something the most, seeking purpose and meaning, and have beliefs and a creed which is but your answer to the fundamental questions of what makes us human.

Presenting yourself as the unique way out of false religions to no religions, is convenient but either not very well thought of (in reality it's blindly followed) or it's dishonest.

---

Nice to see you have failed miserably at lumping all atheists together. You really should stop drinking the kool-aid.

And, MK, you're aware that surveys show that atheists tend to know the bible better than those who follow it, right?  The closest behind atheists are the Mormons with the more conservative groups generally at the bottom of the list.

The Koran is another matter, of course.  I have one on my bookshelf next to my copy of the bible but haven't read it.

[Brian37]

While it is great to see a Muslim take on another Muslim 

Quranists are not Muslims according to most Muslims, but that is another story, I don't know whether we should consider them Muslims or not. He hates all Muslims who don't interpret the book by desires and aren't in favor for abandoning the Sunnah (way) of the Prophet.

I can prove that the Ulil-Amr are the 12 Imams by Quran, but he is not interested in that discussion.

And he seeking honor from you guys by attacking me does nothing for him.

"ist are not arguments. " funny but that argument is also used by others. In other threads recently I've heard Christians accuse those who accept evolution as being "scient-ism" as if it were a religion. And also arguing with someone calling themselves a "Satan-ist" trying to separate an old word "Satan" from it's past.

Now you are arguing "Quranitsts" in the same manor. A couple years ago I saw Bill O'Reilly argue that Catholic was a "philosophy" not a religion.

Nobody is attacking you in order that you can say "I can take it" or "I am a victim" we are merely challenging your bad claims in the same way we do a Christian claiming they got it right, in the same way a "Satan-ist" wants to claim they are different. 

You either have evidence for your claim, or you don't. You are not looking for "honor" which is also a loaded cliche of a word. You are looking to stay stuck in your position because you like it.

My point to you, and Christians and Jews and Buddhists and  "Satanists" and Hindus, is always the same no matter who I am arguing. You might be the nicest person in the world, but that is NOT the subject. You may think you got it right but so what, other people with different labels ALSO think they got it right.

EVIDENCE is the only thing I care about. Not how good you think you are, and one may be a very nice person as an individual, is NOT MY ISSUE. Not how right you think you are. Naked assertions don't mean shit to me, not even coming from my fellow atheists. You either have the facts to back your claims up, or you do not. Liking you are not liking you outside the facts is not my issue.

[LastPoet]

Venus and the full moon. Such a simple sight.

This is a physical impossibility.

---

You posed a good question.... but before I write so much, to respond to this I want to ask what you prefer:

1. Summarize the stance but not prove it (just simply answer the question).
2. Prove and go into details.

Let me know.

I'll take #2.

Nice to see you have failed miserably at lumping all atheists together. You really should stop drinking the kool-aid.

And, MK, you're aware that surveys show that atheists tend to know the bible better than those who follow it, right?  The closest behind atheists are the Mormons with the more conservative groups generally at the bottom of the list.

The Koran is another matter, of course.  I have one on my bookshelf next to my copy of the bible but haven't read it.

Heh, I have beside the bible nd the quran, mein kampf. I keep shit organized

I will grab me coat.

[The Valkyrie]

This is a physical impossibility.

---

I'll take #2.

And, MK, you're aware that surveys show that atheists tend to know the bible better than those who follow it, right?  The closest behind atheists are the Mormons with the more conservative groups generally at the bottom of the list.

The Koran is another matter, of course.  I have one on my bookshelf next to my copy of the bible but haven't read it.

Heh, I have beside the bible nd the quran, mein kampf. I keep shit organized

I will grab me coat.

Mine are kept on a shelf next to my medical reference books.  Those two next to around twenty medical books.

I like to outweigh fiction with fact.

[Jehanne]

I felt like saying, "I'll take #2 for $150..."