Why is it okay when God kills people?

[Cecelia]

God is supposed to be the bastion for morality, yet he goes around killing people pretty willy nilly in the bible.  Not to mention how he demands blood sacrifices--which would be more than a little creepy if he were human.  So why isn't it creepy just because he's some invisible wizard?

Obviously all of this only applies if he's actually real--but even if you convinced me of his existence, I don't think I'd support the guy.  The whole thing reeks of "Might makes right", and that everyone would gladly follow Satan if he were more powerful than God (though they'd never admit it).

"God only kills the wicked!"

Really?  Seems like a pretty poor excuse.    All the children in the flood were going to be wicked?  In which case he was killing them before they actually do anything.  And you can say "Well, they'll go to heaven!" all you like, but unless you happen to be pro-abortion, that argument holds very little water.

And what about the 70,000 people he killed when David took a census?  Those 70,000 people just happened to be wicked?  We're supposed to just take his word on that? 

Lot's wife was killed because she looked back. 

All the first born children of egypt.  Yeah, all of them.  There weren't any other ways he could have freed the supposed slaves of Egypt?  I mean the guy left no evidence behind of them ever being there, seems to me he just wanted to be a dick about it.

Killed a guy because he wouldn't hit a prophet that told him to hit him.  (Apparently this wasn't one of his insane tests like with Abraham, but you can see why you might not want to hit a prophet especially when...)

The youths killed by bears because they teased a prophet.  

Ezekiel's wife... just to make a point. 

I really don't see how anyone can look at this guy and think he's obviously the good guy.  Do you think Harry Potter is the tragic tale of the benevolent Lord Voldemort?  Is the Hunger Games the story of how the evil Katniss Everdeen stops President Snow?  Is Star Wars the story of the downfall of a loving benevolent Empire by a bunch of evil rogues? 

God appears to be the villain of the story, but people give him a pass because 'Well he created everything!" which amounts to might makes right.  And frighteningly you can look at it and start to see how the Nazis were able to do all the things they did.  The justifications of God's actions are lacking.  All most people can say is that you can't judge God by man's standards.  To which I say: I wonder if the Nazi's thought the same thing about Hitler. Or who else's actions we'll justify because we are powerless to stop them.

[vorlon13]

his own son to appease himself . . .

[J a c k]

See... this is all good stuff. I was one of those committed church girls growing up, but the church paid me with a spit in the eye. Everything from a Bible Institute shoving me into a tiny room for two months, to making me ask for forgiveness at the mic in front of 500 people and confess fornication. But! I still wanted to "make-up" with the god. I started to read the Bible start to finish again and this time things were different. The god sucked balls! He was selfish, cruel, petty, knew nothing of nature or science, hated women, and promoted violence. I still believed he existed, but that he was one mean mofo.

This was good, though. I was in the midst of fearing him and thinking I'd have to keep trying to like him until I could come up with a better plan, when my already secretly atheist brother told me something like,"Dude. Think about it. Nobody is here, and nobody will know if you ask yourself these questions. Just try. Who wrote the Bible? Literally who wrote it?" Hmmmmmm. Men inspired by the god? "Dude. People wrote it years and years after the events, with quotes and everything, then people without copy machines made copies by hand and translated it. If brother Alfonso told you his writings with quotes from hundreds of years ago were truth and contained facts because god told him, would you believe him? With what authority?" And I sat there. Blink blink. Hmmm. That makes sense. And here I am today.

You see... as a devoted Christian, I wasn't allowed to ask these questions. I'd go to hell for doubting. I wasn't allowed to think outside the box I was born into. Once I stopped having a "relationship" with the evil god, and I basically broke up with him, I didn't care if I angered him, so it was ok to ask. I can't tell you about the feelings I had the first times I risked my eternal life by allowing myself to ask. The risk! The boldness! The gut! Yeah, this will get me killed... but fuck it! My brain was like a loop... and suddenly I was stepping out of the loop and it felt amazing! Whoa! What's in that door?! Islam! Let me check it out. What's in that door? Satanism! What's in there? Porn! Lol! I was running around in my mind asking, curiously searching, opening doors in my head I never dared to even look at. Just thinking was a risk! It was a daredevil thing to do. I was exploring thought and reason. It was all new and unexplored. The moment of clarity came when I was driving home one day and I said my last prayer ever. I knew it was the last. I knew it was words to the wind. I was free. Alone and shaken... like discovering your parents were just imaginary friends and you grew up in psych ward. Kind of like... wait. The god was here just a second ago and poof! Gone. I didn't get to say goodbye. Confusing as fuck. But damn. Thinking felt extraordinary. It was right. It was liberating.

I had to stop loving the imaginary character to be bold enough to disobey him by allowing myself to doubt. So, good that the god character was such a bully. I hate bullies. Let me just add... I don't hate the god. I don't believe he exists anymore, but if it were proven that he does exists in any shape or form, I'd rather face eternal hell than serve a terrorist like that.

I don't like saying this story, because theist have a field day thinking ah ha! You're mad at god, so you mask it with atheism! Wrong. I was mad at an imaginary creature years ago. Now I know better. I sincerely do not believe there is a god. Any god.
Having said that... thank god I'm atheist  

[brewer]

Why, because it knows better than you. How dare you question it. Uppity puny human. Keep it up and it will wack you to. Now shut up and take what god gives you and thank your lucky stars that you even get that. 

If you continue down this path there will be no golden ticket for you.

[Drich]

God is supposed to be the bastion for morality, yet he goes around killing people pretty willy nilly in the bible.  Not to mention how he demands blood sacrifices--which would be more than a little creepy if he were human.  So why isn't it creepy just because he's some invisible wizard?

Well first off 'creepy' is a subjective term. it can mean what you want it to mean even after a sound explanation.
that said
The reason for the blood sacrifice was a reminder of the cost of sin (life.) One can not sin and retain life. That the wage or fruit of sin is death.

Obviously all of this only applies if he's actually real--but even if you convinced me of his existence, I don't think I'd support the guy.  The whole thing reeks of "Might makes right", and that everyone would gladly follow Satan if he were more powerful than God (though they'd never admit it).

Might does indeed equal right in every aspect of civilization. So why not here? or can you name a civilization where the mightiest of a given people did not set the rule and write History.

"God only kills the wicked!"

God also takes the righteous by death from the wicked. Steven from those who stoned Him. Pretty much all the apstoles..ect.

Really?  Seems like a pretty poor excuse.    All the children in the flood were going to be wicked? 

Show me a child that is not going to grow up exceedingly wicked in an ISIS type of environment. If a child does not have the wherewith all to be wicked they are consumed by the society. Same thing happens in North Korea. IF you are not brain douched by the state propaganda you are either executed or sent to a "reeducation camp"/Consentration camp and for to hard labor 25 years at a bend to make sure you think like everyone else.

So then if these examples are alive and well in modern times what makes you possibly think That a world ran by 'Titans' would be a better place? That a world consumed by worship of self with NO advocates of God outside of Noah would somehow be a better place? Again North Korea is a place where 'man' is worshiped as god. How could a planet of north Korean thinking yield anything more than evil?

In which case he was killing them before they actually do anything. 

So?

And you can say "Well, they'll go to heaven!" all you like, but unless you happen to be pro-abortion, that argument holds very little water.

I honestly don't care what God did with them I simply trust that what ever happened it was for the best for the rest of us. Because one thing is for absolute sure, if they had been permitted to live none of us would be here.

And what about the 70,000 people he killed when David took a census?  Those 70,000 people just happened to be wicked?  We're supposed to just take his word on that? 

David ask the samething in 2sam 24:17

Lot's wife was killed because she looked back. 

She looked back longing for the life she had left. In this case God simply gave her what she wanted.

All the first born children of egypt.  Yeah, all of them.  There weren't any other ways he could have freed the supposed slaves of Egypt?

What effect do you think this had on the nation of Egypt? If all first born males had died? let me restate if all legal heirs died? It would cripple Egypt's economy and destroy the country infrastructure leaving them in civil war and endless infighting.. So much so as to not be a threat to the jews who were to camp out in the desert for the next 40 years.

  I mean the guy left no evidence behind of them ever being there, seems to me he just wanted to be a dick about it.

Outside of the first born dead Egyptians and the alive first born jews. Essentially mirroring the plague the pharroah wanted to visit on the jews.. One day after having Moses tell pharroah he would decide the fate of Egypt.

Killed a guy because he wouldn't hit a prophet that told him to hit him.  (Apparently this wasn't one of his insane tests like with Abraham, but you can see why you might not want to hit a prophet especially when...)

Actually God did not Kill anyone a lion did. What? lions can't eat?

The youths killed by bears because they teased a prophet.  

Ezekiel's wife... just to make a point.

  Ezek's wife died so that Ezek could make the connections between the nation of Israel and God. Ezek's wife was the salvation of the nation from coming wrath/death.

I really don't see how anyone can look at this guy and think he's obviously the good guy.

"Good" is a false measure of righteousness. No God is not "good" to everyone, because God is first and formost righteous. "Good" is a term that describes personal approval of someone. It is not possible for God to meet everyone's standard of 'good' and not cross the line of being evil. Because no one think themselves as evil, but even we can understand not everyone who calls themselves 'good' are indeed all "good." Even the bad guys think themselves the "good guys" in war.

  Do you think Harry Potter is the tragic tale of the benevolent Lord Voldemort?  Is the Hunger Games the story of how the evil Katniss Everdeen stops President Snow?  Is Star Wars the story of the downfall of a loving benevolent Empire by a bunch of evil rogues? 

Funny you should mention that... Maybe, after you see "the last Jedi" you should comment. There is always two sides of every story, and really good story telling does not tell you which side to pick but rather blurs the lines and makes you choose...

God appears to be the villain of the story,

To those who oppose God. That's what I meant that God's can't been seen to be "good" by everyone. as some of us are inhearently evil. Therefore unless God was evil he could not be seen as 'good' to an evil person.

but people give him a pass because 'Well he created everything!" which amounts to might makes right. 

Again show me ANY Working Civilization NOT based on this principle.

And frighteningly you can look at it and start to see how the Nazis were able to do all the things they did.

 
They started with controlling the media and science. They began there and then slowly introduced what they called " Positive Christianity" a version where Hitler was seen as Christ.. Much like the Kims of North Korea. (meaning man is worship as God, rather than God)

The justifications of God's actions are lacking.

 maybe to those who aren't 'looking'

All most people can say is that you can't judge God by man's standards. 

Indeed. how can the finite judge the infinite/what he does not understand of know?

To which I say: I wonder if the Nazi's thought the same thing about Hitler.

Your right once positive Christianity took hold and hitler became Christ. they thought he was not to be judged as his fellow man. Same too with any theocratic/god rulling country. Japan, North Korea, ect...

Or who else's actions we'll justify because we are powerless to stop them.

According to Revelation "We" will know Him as the Anti Christ. You all (men seeking to worship man) will know Him God.

[The Valkyrie]

Because it's okay for THEIR imaginary friend to do whatever it wishes because it's supposedly all powerful and, therefore, can't be wrong. It's also supposedly above the concepts of we mere mortals.

There's also the fact that the believers will go to any lengths, including gold medal winning mental gymnastics to justify the recorded "actions" of their imaginary friend.

Right, Drich?

[Whateverist]

We're his art work, he gets to dispose of us as he sees fit.

There is an answer no xtian is ever going to give you.

[Cecelia]

Might doesn't make right, though. Might makes the laws--but that does not make the laws just. Therefore God (if he actually existed) would be an unjust god, and all who follow him would be just as unjust (not to mention cowards).

This God hasn't appeared in 2000 years, so I'm not sure what everyone's worried about with regards to his might. Sounds to me like if he actually existed the Romans succeeded in killing him. Only a few people didn't like that, so they lied about their god coming back to life so people would still fear their almighty dictator.

Also I find it kind of funny that conservative christians essentially support a fascist dictator who throws political opponents and those he disagrees with in prison forever. If a dictator like that rose in the US, most of them would be the first to exercise their second amendment rights--even if it gets them killed.

[Simon Moon]

Might does indeed equal right in every aspect of civilization. So why not here? or can you name a civilization where the mightiest of a given people did not set the rule and write History.

Might certainly does get its way, but that does not make it right.

Slavery will never be morally right, even if the mightiest makes laws that allow it.

Is it morally right that Christians can be killed in certain Muslim countries, just because the mightiest rule those countries?

[Drich]

See... this is all good stuff. I was one of those committed church girls growing up, but the church paid me with a spit in the eye. Everything from a Bible Institute shoving me into a tiny room for two months, to making me ask for forgiveness at the mic in front of 500 people and confess fornication. But! I still wanted to "make-up" with the god. I started to read the Bible start to finish again and this time things were different. The god sucked balls! He was selfish, cruel, petty, knew nothing of nature or science, hated women, and promoted violence. I still believed he existed, but that he was one mean mofo.

I'm sorry you never questioned that God or worse yet that there was no one there to help you see anything different.

This was good, though. I was in the midst of fearing him and thinking I'd have to keep trying to like him until I could come up with a better plan, when my already secretly atheist brother told me something like,"Dude. Think about it. Nobody is here, and nobody will know if you ask yourself these questions.

Heart breaking. You never actually read the bible for yourself have you? Only taught and trained what to think be reding certain passages.. I am sorry for that as well. Had you read the bible for yourself you would have come across 1 thess 5:21 Which says Question ALL Things and to hold on to what is good. This does not only mean for us to question the questionable but to question the foundational/doctrinal as well.. Question ALL Things. Meaning there is not a question man has that God can not provide to you, nor anyone else. It is so sad that you have to ask about the bible in secrete.

Just try. Who wrote the Bible?

My questions would be which part. The bible is not a book. it is a collections of books and letters. That would be like asking who wrote Wikipedia... Your question should then be to ask which part. Because the word bible or biblica literally means book of books. like wiki is a calibration of info so to is the bible. Now like wiki there are several incarnations of the book of books. meaning there are several different version based on source material availed and translation. Most bibles read the same but there are some stand out version that are radically different than the others. To understand the three main translation you must first understand where and when they came from. First there is the Septuagint which is a latin based bible who's orgins are supposed to be from the koine greek. This is most often identified as the Catholic's bible.

Then there is the koine Greek bibles based on different codices (or codex) which is a fancy term that describes a collection of 1st 2nd and 3rd century compiled and hand written copied in the 3rd and 4th century. (some even much older) the holy bible or one of the variants are based off of one or several difference codices. they were just compiled in the 3rd-ish century it does not mean they were written then.

Lastly you have the gnostic bible. know it or not your brother (and what you currently believe) was describing how the gnostic bible is/was compiled.

Literally who wrote it?" Hmmmmmm. Men inspired by the god? "Dude. People wrote it years and years after the events, with quotes and everything, then people without copy machines made copies by hand and translated it.

This is not true. The book of Luke was Paul's gospel and it had to have been written early to mid 60's AD. Meaning luke wrote down Paul's gospel first hand, like wise Mark maybe 10 years after luke wrote down peter's gospel. Meaning mark is a hand written copy of the first hand experience of Peter.

If brother Alfonso told you his writings with quotes from hundreds of years ago were truth and contained facts because god told him, would you believe him? With what authority?"

What if "brother alfonso" could place you before God in this life? Meaning he could give you 3simple steps and you could interact with God? would that then be authority enough?

And I sat there. Blink blink. Hmmm. That makes sense. And here I am today.

Sadly is the case of too many religious people.. they are so interested in grandiose displays of "fornication confession" they forget to read the bible themselves and they miss the little things.. like the bits that God says those types of grandiose statements are meaningless to him. To go into your closet and pray to him without making a show. And they miss out on God.. because the crap they do to worship Him is against what He has asked them to do.

You see... as a devoted Christian, I wasn't allowed to ask these questions.

I'd go to hell for doubting.

Did Thomas goto Hell for doubting? Or did GOD Give Thomas exactly what He needed to establish and maintain his faith.

I wasn't allowed to think outside the box I was born into.

My poor sister... "we" were never born Christian. That is a title that gets awarded to us by Christ! Nothing we can say or do will ever earn us that title or take it away.

Once I stopped having a "relationship" with the evil god, and I basically broke up with him, I didn't care if I angered him, so it was ok to ask.

Good! maybe try the God of the bible/Holy Bible this time round. You can ask Him or me anything you like.

I can't tell you about the feelings I had the first times I risked my eternal life by allowing myself to ask. The risk! The boldness! The gut! Yeah, this will get me killed...

I honestly never heard that there are Christian not allowed to ask questions. 1Thess 5:21 "QUESTION ALL THINGS!!!! And Hold On to what is good!!!")

but fuck it! My brain was like a loop... and suddenly I was stepping out of the loop and it felt amazing! Whoa! What's in that door?! Islam! Let me check it out. What's in that door? Satanism! What's in there? Porn! Lol! I was running around in my mind asking, curiously searching, opening doors in my head I never dared to even look at. Just thinking was a risk! It was a daredevil thing to do. I was exploring thought and reason. It was all new and unexplored. The moment of clarity came when I was driving home one day and I said my last prayer ever. I knew it was the last. I knew it was words to the wind. I was free. Alone and shaken... like discovering your parents were just imaginary friends and you grew up in psych ward. Kind of like... wait. The god was here just a second ago and poof! Gone. I didn't get to say goodbye. Confusing as fuck. But damn. Thinking felt extraordinary. It was right. It was liberating.

what if I were to tell you Jesus tells a story that describes your life perfectly?

I had to stop loving the imaginary character to be bold enough to disobey him by allowing myself to doubt.

Again God commands us to Question. Your Religion is bad if it says do not doubt.

So, good that the god character was such a bully. I hate bullies. Let me just add... I don't hate the god. I don't believe he exists anymore, but if it were proven that he does exists in any shape or form, I'd rather face eternal hell than serve a terrorist like that.

And if "God" is not a bully?

I don't like saying this story, because theist have a field day thinking ah ha! You're mad at god, so you mask it with atheism! Wrong. I was mad at an imaginary creature years ago. Now I know better. I sincerely do not believe there is a god. Any god.
Having said that... thank god I'm atheist  

As an 'athesit' do you have questions you wish you could have asked and got an answer to?

---

Might doesn't make right, though.  Might makes the laws--but that does not make the laws just.  Therefore God (if he actually existed) would be an unjust god, and all who follow him would be just as unjust (not to mention cowards).  

Again I asked you for one example where might does not make right in human History. Even with the Nazis Their might made it right to kill jews by the millions, then the western allies 'might' made what the Nazi's were doing wrong again. Might has always made right in every human example. So then what makes you think this is not a hold over or character of God?

This God hasn't appeared in 2000 years,

That's not true.. God has nothing to do with knot heads... but for the rest of us we know He is alive and well.

so I'm not sure what everyone's worried about with regards to his might.

 till the next tsunami or 911 then it's "oh God why did thy smight us oh lord.. mercy oh great smighter or were you not around then, when CNN was even broadcasting prayers.

Sounds to me like if he actually existed the Romans succeeded in killing him.  Only a few people didn't like that, so they lied about their god coming back to life so people would still fear their almighty dictator.

Also I find it kind of funny that conservative christians essentially support a fascist dictator who throws political opponents and those he disagrees with in prison forever.  If a dictator like that rose in the US, most of them would be the first to exercise their second amendment rights--even if it gets them killed.

So this is what "thinkers" do when asked to provide evidence that 'might does not make right." they seek to win the argument based on an appeal to popularity rather than sound theology or even basic judgment.