A question about original sin.

[fr0d0]

You're saying we're flawed using other words.

We are what we are.

I'd appreciate if you didn't put your words in my mouth.

"We are what we are", I said. Do you actually read "flawed"? For this I did not write, nor did I mean it ...yadyadayada

Either my fucking eyes are decieving me or I quoted you exactly there.

I don't give a shit about your observations off subject. Try addressing the fucking point and I'll get back to you

[Judas BentHer]

Romans 5:18-19 (KJV)

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

I do believe you have proven what I said, thank you. You think this verse says that you will pay for the sin of Adam, your wrong you pay for your sin only. You sure have an upside-down way of looking at scripture. You are trying to blame God for your sin, man up and accept that what you do is of your own making through the freewill of your life.

I didn't make your point for you. However, I understand how you need to read what you need to believe in order to think you deserve to be labeled a sinner, and hope to god you'll deserve heaven when you die.
And do pay attention. This is an atheist forum. I don't blame god for my sin. God does not exist, nor does sin.
However you, like all Christians, must think everyone in the world is liable as fellow sinners. That we've all come short of the glory of the god that you believe created all of us to be in such deficit.

It's a fascinating example of irrationality and hypocrisy. Christians, as you repeatedly example in your arguments proffered on an atheist forum you elect to join and presume to insist in your address to us are just as responsible as Christians in being sinners. Everyone is guilty of moral wrong doing. Everyone makes offense against god. And if we don't repent of that, we're all damned.

And yet that fault, that deficit state of being precedes everything that follows about being human. They're sinners from the beginning, simply for being human. So that all their lives they have to atone for the innate characteristic of having being created by god's will, imperfect in his sight. And as a consequence they shall forever strive to overcome god's will, by seeking to be redeemed of it so as to be saved from god's wrath and judgment for failing to overcome the human condition he created possible.

And being omniscient, that poor born sinner's destiny is already set. Because there is nothing omniscience does not know.
Isaiah 46:9

I am God, and there is none like me,
declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done.


And as the myth of the "Book of Life" declares, so as to support that Biblical promise.

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life
was cast into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15)

If your name is not contained within you go to Hell. And while that may surprise you, and you'll no doubt claim it untrue regardless of the Biblical scripture to the contrary, be not afraid. For while you may like to think you'll have a great many atheists for company, the Bible says you shall certainly at the very least be none the less in the company of your god. Psalms 135:7-10.

Meanwhile, you should check your heart and your motives for being here as you demonstrate the Christian example, as you show us by your posts what your faith has done for you. And what it's contributed in making you who you post/show yourself to be.

Which at this point is that of someone who thinks they have a valid argument as to not only why god exists and is perfect despite the scripture to the contrary, as well as why you're a Christian, but that even atheists are subject to the terms and conditions of being human, per the tenets of your religion.

You know that old saying; you're preaching to the choir? In this case, you're arguing to the mirror.
You should spend some quality time asking yourself why you think you'll win.

[Anomalocaris]

You're saying we're flawed using other words.

We are what we are.

I'd appreciate if you didn't put your words in my mouth.

"We are what we are", I said. Do you actually read "flawed"? For this I did not write, nor did I mean it ...yadyadayada

Either my fucking eyes are decieving me or I quoted you exactly there.

I don't give a shit about your observations off subject. Try addressing the fucking point and I'll get back to you

Such language, to a lady, for shame!

They are turning up the heat in hell for you, my boy.

[Kayenneh]

Either my fucking eyes are decieving me or I quoted you exactly there.

I don't give a shit about your observations off subject. Try addressing the fucking point and I'll get back to you

I didn't deviate from the subject, you did. Sin is a totally man made thing and flaw means defect, fault, or imperfection, especially one that is hidden and should not be applied to human beings. You might have quoted me exactly, but you missed the point. I'll be the one waiting for you to take a handfull of chill pills

And by the way, it's not only your eyes that deceives you, some here might argue that your mind is in the same boat..

Such language, to a lady, for shame!

They are turning up the heat in hell for you, my boy.

Thanks Chuck for defending my honour(?), but I say that cuss words, like any words, are part of a broad vocabulary, so I don't mind people swearing around me.

[C Rod]

Evil god!

My quotes of the Bible are not to preach but to rebuttal.

O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith Jehovah. Behold, as the clay in the potter's hand, so are ye in my hand, O house of Israel. Jer 18:6

But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. Job 2:10

And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28

We assume that we are more than we are and that we know how things should be when we truly know so little. You know nothing of what is to come but claim now is forever. We do not see the end or the beginning. If his judgements for the wicked are just how then is he evil and if his works are for good then how is he wrong and if he is the true God how could you question him?

[Anomalocaris]

Sonny, go shit on your bible, and I garranty your god, in his omni-impotence, will not be able to overcome his own non-existence to take you to account.

I question him because he can't do jack shit about it. The full extent of his power consists of sycophantic mamby pamby hangers-on, like yourself, issuing totally ineffectual threats on his behalf.

The fact that there is that very little which we actually do know is due in large part to our willingness to flush the pretentious ignorance inducing bullshit of your religion down the toilet.

We know very little and some of think we know somewhat more. But all of us know we have much to actually learn. You known absolutely nothing and think you've already know everything you need, and not one of your ilk know how to actually learn. So fuck off.

[Judas BentHer]

Evil god!

My quotes of the Bible are not to preach but to rebuttal.

O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith Jehovah. Behold, as the clay in the potter's hand, so are ye in my hand, O house of Israel. Jer 18:6

But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. Job 2:10

And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28

We assume that we are more than we are and that we know how things should be when we truly know so little. You know nothing of what is to come but claim now is forever. We do not see the end or the beginning. If his judgements for the wicked are just how then is he evil and if his works are for good then how is he wrong and if he is the true God how could you question him?

Genesis 6:6 "And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart."


Yes, evil god. If man did what god either did or commanded to be done in his name, by his will, through his human emissaries, the Jews, it would be evil, sinful and condemned by god.
The 6th commandment thou shalt not murder. So while man can not murder how is it they can be allowed to by god's command, so as to do his will in the midst of that what he has dominion over? And how can god,a supreme being, be possessed of the same negative character flaws that make sinners of humans? Hate, vengeance, genocide, jealousy, commanding kidnapping and rape, etc...

How is it that if thou shalt not kill, and that among other verses are what is referenced by pro-life activists when they claim abortion is murder and against god? While god murdered countless children in Egypt at the time of Moses when he slaughtered the first born of every house, and when he drowned the whole world save for Noah's immediate family? Not to mention, if all is god's will then spontaneous abortion i.e. miscarriage, would make god's will responsible for making him the universal abortionist.

When a god commands lesser beings behave in a manner that god doesn't even aspire to, while god created human nature to be imperfect, in deficit of grace and yet worthy of judgment for our behaving as the flawed sinful flesh he created, while he is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, then not only is he a poor role model for having created us in his image and likeness, but he's also demonstrates chapter and verse that he's a murdering hypocritical psychopath and egomaniac. No thing that is perfect can create from itself anything that is less than perfect. Unless it is by intent. That makes god evil, because omniscience knows all which means human life is preordained within his sight.

So while you can rebut what you refuse to acknowledge is written in the Bible, it is there none the less.

If god was omnibenevolent, infinitely kind, in his omniscient omnipotence he would not have chosen to make imperfect humans, create sin as their curse for being human and flawed and then created the Book of Life wherein is contained the names of those select people, before their time began, who are to be granted admittance into Heaven. While all others, saved or not, are destined for the Hell of god's creation. All not as a matter of exercise of free will and possible outcomes. But rather all that is predestined because omniscient omnipotence promises as it knew every human before the womb, that it is true.

[C Rod]

Sonny, go shit on your bible, and I garranty your god, in his omni-impotence, will not be able to overcome his own non-existence to take you to account.

I question him because he can't do jack shit about it. The full extent of his power consists of sycophantic mamby pamby hangers-on, like yourself, issuing totally ineffectual threats on his behalf.

The fact that there is that very little which we actually do know is due in large part to our willingness to flush the pretentious ignorance inducing bullshit of your religion down the toilet.

We know very little and some of think we know somewhat more. But all of us know we have much to actually learn. You known absolutely nothing and think you've already know everything you need, and not one of your ilk know how to actually learn. So fuck off.

You sound angry, at which you should not be angry, those you can help and those that you can not help. For are you not to HELP me see your truth because it is true or can you not help at which you are still angry? I know something to be important and i will believe it more for its importance. Knowledge will not bring you joy.

[The Grand Nudger]

Evil god!

My quotes of the Bible are not to preach but to rebuttal.

O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith Jehovah. Behold, as the clay in the potter's hand, so are ye in my hand, O house of Israel. Jer 18:6

But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. Job 2:10

And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28

We assume that we are more than we are and that we know how things should be when we truly know so little. You know nothing of what is to come but claim now is forever. We do not see the end or the beginning. If his judgements for the wicked are just how then is he evil and if his works are for good then how is he wrong and if he is the true God how could you question him?

Tell you what, I want you to bold all of the "if's" you used in that post. Come back with knockdown drag out evidence that any of the "if'"s are factual. Then I'll praise jehovah and put in a good word for you at the gates.

[Epimethean]

1) We assume that we are more than we are and that we know how things should be when we truly know so little.

Monotheists base their lives on pure unqualified assumption to a far greater degree than the average bear. Faith is the grand assumption.

2) You know nothing of what is to come but claim now is forever. We do not see the end or the beginning.

No-one "knows" what is to come. Most atheists are too busy working on what is to get sidetracked in speculations about the future. Your statement about not seeing the end or the beginning is fair, but it indicts your faith in a massive way due to your clingy dogmatism as it pertains to that heinously outdated old tome you think spells everything out for you even in the modern day.


3) If his judgements for the wicked are just how then is he evil and if his works are for good then how is he wrong and if he is the true God how could you question him?

There is no such thing as "his judgment." The wickedness lies in the presumption the godsquad makes by inserting its own prejudices as having been divinely inspired rather than taking responsibility for their bigotry. As for your "true god" rubbish, I'd meet any of the wackos responsible for coming up with the pox that is the bible at 40 paces any day of the week. Putting a bullet between some of their eyes would have aborted one of the worst plagues that ever lit upon this earth: christianity.