A rational explanation for hell?

[Ace Otana]

I'm having that in my sig.

[C Rod]

I've never felt that closing a book was a mysterious act, but C Rod seems to be suggesting that it is.

Explain, it seems this is my concept but i not grasping the analogy.

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It doesn't matter what people believe death to be like GC. There is this little thing called reality, where real things happen. We can watch and record death, we can reproduce it. We can measure the composition of a body, the environment around it, and see where things go. We can monitor activity in the brain, how it relates to the environment around it, and how a sense of self is created by the machine. Finally we can monitor the cease of brain function, and subsequent death. If someone has a belief that violates any of the observable, reproducible, falsifiable evidence..no worries, show the evidence in support of your proposition. If it is not sufficient, guess what.....you can believe it if you like, but it aint real. Non-existence is not mysterious.

But i asked this what is that moment to me when i should so die to you. That moment i want described with observation. That is the mystery or do you know this moment in which the brain stops working and what was is no longer. This to the person or to all, for we are all humans, that this has happened to.

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I've been wondering btw, at what point would simply admitting that there are no arguments for gods existence, that the supernatural, as far as we can tell, is all bs..and still...you have faith. Wouldn't that make someone uber-christian by the doctrine of faith alone. I mean, faith against all, faith in spite of your own knowledge..gotta be the fast ticket to heaven, you'd probably get lifted away like Ezekiel.

I have the bible, if there was no Bible than i would not believe. I can not offer evidence of God's existence but by the testimony of the bible in which you all ready believe is not true. But as i see you are just trying to justify yourself with proof of God. Why not believe in God, the God in the Bible who says i am saved if i so choose to ask, why not ask? For if God came to you and said believe would that not be the elimination of choice and said character. Or should acknowledgement of him come throughout the way we live our life. The truth be it we know the claim of God and you will deny it and do what "pleases" you or accept it and let it be the truth you hope to follow. This is such great a difference, these two characters and ways of life. This perplexes me to notice the differences and wonder why? To ponder the reasons of such people with the actions of there life and character not there mere choice proclaimed on a forum.

[The Grand Nudger]

But i asked this what is that moment to me when i should so die to you. That moment i want described with observation. That is the mystery or do you know this moment in which the brain stops working and what was is no longer. This to the person or to all, for we are all humans, that this has happened to.

I'm not following the question, are you stating that until someone can tell you, person to person, what their personal experience of death will be before they experience it, the null is afterlives?

Or that no matter how well observed it is, only someone coming back from the dead will explain it to you?

I'm also wondering what exactly you think the difference in character and action would be from theist to atheist. Or is "mere choice on a forum" one of those foreshadowing "No ones really an atheist" things?

[Godscreated]

Ace why would anyone be afraid of being dead, if you are right then dead is gone and nothing else. However there is a big difference in being dead and dying,this is what I'm talking about the conscious act of dying, this is what people fear.

Like falling asleep or painful car accident? I'll admit some ways of going out are quite scary but personally I prefer dying in my sleep.

So would I and everyone else, but we do not get that choice, this is why people fear dying it is totally out of their control. Things people have no control over scare them, usually the younger one is the less experienced one is and this leads to greater fear.

[The Grand Nudger]

LOL, there's a much simpler and well researched notion as to why living things fear death, god isn't in this particular motion picture.

By the by CRod, since my interesting thoughts are why you're here, here's something right from the presses:

You say god, I say show me, you make an argument about free will. It's this ridiculous house of cards scenario. It's infuriating (intellectually speaking). "Show me" is legitimate, it is an honest response. Why bring in another assumption that you've made, an assumption in which the existence of god is still the premise, and a further complication, the christian concept of free will, is added? Show that these things are actually real before you leverage them against an objection.

[edk]

So would I and everyone else, but we do not get that choice, this is why people fear dying it is totally out of their control. Things people have no control over scare them, usually the younger one is the less experienced one is and this leads to greater fear.

The less experienced one is? As far as I'm aware, by the time you're experienced in dying, your opinion doesn't matter too much.

Things people have no control over scare them? Well yes, knowing your last moments could be painful ones is a worrying thought, but I personally draw some comfort from the fact that I will not exist to remember them. You, on the other hand, believe that what? you'll go to Heaven and chill with God, remembering your last, painful moments on Earth? Good luck with that.

As for fearing death, that's because things that don't fear death die before they can reproduce.

Edit: Removed the personal attack

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh cmon ED, don't edit out the insults. This guy has condemned you to eternal torment. I say anythings fair once someone starts fantasizing about your state of damnation.

[edk]

Oh yeah? You want insults? Fine. If I get any shit for this, I blame you.

Godschild, if I were the type of person who insulted people, this is what I would say to you.

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You are a deluded fool who is incapable of rational thought, and I wish you the best of luck getting to Heaven as quickly as possible, although whether you'll be able to be truly happy in Heaven where there are no atheists to troll is a question only you can answer once you're there. But that's immaterial, really, since everything you believe in is bullshit, and comes from this pile of utter horse shit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1I3mBojc0

I don't know whether you were raised a Christian, in which case it's not 100% your fault, but the fact remains that...



Only by growing a fucking brain will you see your way past this unfortunate obstacle and be able to stop confusing this:



With this:



If you've successfully negotiated your way past the image macros, your reward is the following rational argument: Christianity is really, really, REALLY stupid. Seriously though, how many people would believe in it if they hadn't been taught to. New rule: If you have to indoctrinate children to be a religion, you don't get to be a religion anymore.

Finally, I would remind you that while science gave us more money, antibiotics, vaccines, space flight, telecommunications, computers and electricity, Christianity gave us this:

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[Ace Otana]

So would I and everyone else, but we do not get that choice, this is why people fear dying it is totally out of their control. Things people have no control over scare them, usually the younger one is the less experienced one is and this leads to greater fear.

You know what else is out of our control? The ability to choose to live on after death in a heaven or not. We have no control over anything to do with death. Death is simply the end of biological function. Existence for us is temporary.
Some fear it, some don't. Some jump to wishful thinking like heaven as you have and some have accepted reality and that we'll simply cease to exist.

Live life as best you can, don't dwell on death or some afterlife. Most likely there is no such thing as an afterlife and death is completely unavoidable.

[C Rod]

I'm not following the question, are you stating that until someone can tell you, person to person, what their personal experience of death will be before they experience it, the null is afterlives?

Or that no matter how well observed it is, only someone coming back from the dead will explain it to you?

I'm also wondering what exactly you think the difference in character and action would be from theist to atheist. Or is "mere choice on a forum" one of those foreshadowing "No ones really an atheist" things?

Yes what is it like not to exist? What can you tell me of death or are you dodging the question and coming up with presumptions? I want to know what it is to me, to all of us(since i think you believe there is nothing)? Can you tell me of it or is it a mystery because you cant and even when you find out i wont know and vice versa?
I think the difference is the truth of our actions and if you do the same "good" i do short of a few things, i give all the glory to the Father and admit i have done nothing good at all. Just some minor differences.