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But how good are we really??
#21
RE: But how good are we really??
(October 10, 2017 at 6:11 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I have killed a shit load of people, mostly those were trying to kill me, or would have tried if I'd have given them the least chance. But if you ask the people who know me IRL they'd say I was  a good person. They say it often enough to me.

I get the same.  People thank me for what I've done without asking what I did...and if i ever tell them...they come up with reasons -for- me.  I don't know about you, but the strangest thing for me is realizing that by most other peoples standards (at least the people in my social circle) I'm a boy scout, a walking saint.  The kid nextdoor.  I watch them agonize over their own moral status while giving me a pass to do..it seems..pretty much anything.

I don't think I'll ever forgive myself (but at the same time ther's a part of me that doesn't give a single fuck)....but every year, I get a holiday and a bunch of flag waiving and people say horrible shit that they probably think I agree with about what I did, about who I am and who I'll always be...and on the inside I;m positively dying but I don't have the heart to take it from them.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#22
RE: But how good are we really??
As Astreja said - I have had my share of revenge fantasies.  And I have made plans to take revenge that I simply did not act on.  I cannot say that's because I was behaving as a "good" person, or that my conscience took over.  It was a combination of fear of getting caught with simple . . . lack of energy to follow through.
    I studied for 30 years at a karate school.  We were quite literally taught how to kill another human beings - hundreds of ways.  We also had group discussion sessions to talk about what would happen IF . . .      Working with that type of violence and fear and self-protection also taught most of us to look at the possible consequences of our actions.  I had a teacher who went to Thailand to study Muy Thai and get in the ring and fight.  I saw a thoughtful, gentle, caring, controlled man turn into something very scary for those 5 rounds.  I asked him, afterward, how it felt.  What made him get in that ring. (No, I'm not talking about competition or strategy.  I'm talking about - wanting to physically maim another human being.)  He said that it was very instructive to "let the monster out occasionally - and then put him back in his cage".   To look at a piece that exists in all of us - the animal that is capable of killing under certain circumstances.  Parents understand this.  All you have to do is ask them what they would do if they caught a stranger harming their child.  The gentlest, most logical, most pacifistic Mom you know will respond "I would kill the sonofabitch."  That's literal.

So I find answering the question "am I a good person" - a little challenging.  I try to treat people with respect.  I try to listen,  I try to cause no harm.  The universal "golden rule" seems to be in play most of the time.  

But I have also seen the nasty side of humanity.  I have been a "victim".  Which means that I have also honestly said, once or twice, that I understand why some people take guns into a crowded venue and start shooting.  That feeling of being mistreated and that everyone you see is going to stab you in the back - - that one's a bitch to get past.  But I also get completely distraught if I cause others pain.  I hit a squirrel with my car last week and cried off and on most of the day because of it.  So you have a total wussy marshmallow who has actually considered shooting up a crowd.  Is this a sign of insanity?   Tongue    Sad  

Am I a caring person?  Yes.  Am I a good listener?  Yes.  Am I empathetic?  Most of the time.  I think empathy is essential for humanity.  I tend to think "bad person" is usually someone selfish, who thinks of other people as just things to be used.  Am I a good person?  I'm a human being with my own crappy history who is trying to be a good person.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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#23
RE: But how good are we really??
(October 10, 2017 at 5:26 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:
(October 10, 2017 at 3:57 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: So, how many times have you resisted doing something you thought was immoral even though you really wanted to do it and had the opportunity to do it?
Can't count how many times. How often? The majority of the time but can't claim I'm perfect.

Really? That's pretty good. I find that when I want to do something and have the opportunity to do it, I most likely will, even if i think it is immoral.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#24
RE: But how good are we really??
On a scale from 1-10; 11
"For the only way to eternal glory is a life lived in service of our Lord, FSM; Verily it is FSM who is the perfect being the name higher than all names, king of all kings and will bestow upon us all, one day, The great reclaiming"  -The Prophet Boiardi-

      Conservative trigger warning.
[Image: s-l640.jpg]
                                                                                         
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#25
RE: But how good are we really??
(October 10, 2017 at 2:45 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Not-killing, not-raping, and not-cheating seem like awfully low bars to clear to claim the mantle of goodness.

What is good to me, lies not in simply refraining from evil, but instead lies in the positive things we do, in particular for others (and not just our families).



Well, let's not over generalize on the not killing aspect. Any believer failing to off an Amalekite is, by definition, not good.

God would be within His rights to blot out any remembrance of anyone offering succor or alms to an Amalekite, let alone allowing one to live.
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




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#26
RE: But how good are we really??
If "good" is self-determined then why isn't "morality" self-determined?

We probably agree that incest is bad AND immoral.  Yet in Ancient Egypt we have an entire culture which expected the pharaoh to marry his sister to maintain the purity of the royal blood line.  They seemed to think that incest was highly moral.  Almost a sacred duty.
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#27
RE: But how good are we really??
(October 10, 2017 at 6:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(October 10, 2017 at 5:26 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Can't count how many times. How often? The majority of the time but can't claim I'm perfect.

Really? That's pretty good. I find that when I want to do something and have the opportunity to do it, I most likely will, even if i think it is immoral.

That surprises me.

Personally, if I acted on some of the urges I've had over the years I'd likely be doing life in prison.

Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:

"You did WHAT?  With WHO?  WHERE???"
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#28
RE: But how good are we really??
(October 10, 2017 at 6:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(October 10, 2017 at 5:26 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Can't count how many times. How often? The majority of the time but can't claim I'm perfect.

Really? That's pretty good. I find that when I want to do something and have the opportunity to do it, I most likely will, even if i think it is immoral.

My guess is that you and I have a different threshold for immoral.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#29
RE: But how good are we really??
(October 10, 2017 at 6:44 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:
(October 10, 2017 at 6:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Really? That's pretty good. I find that when I want to do something and have the opportunity to do it, I most likely will, even if i think it is immoral.

That surprises me.

Personally, if I acted on some of the urges I've had over the years I'd likely be doing life in prison.

there would be a lake of molten lava still cooling outside of Chicago had I the ability to invoke it in the first place . . .
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




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#30
RE: But how good are we really??
So..uh, if you ever do manage that, there are some people I'd like to toss in it.  No apologies. Don't ask questions. I'll pay for access.

Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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