Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist

[Whateverist]

This just buys into the shit we teach girls about being passive and not admitting to sexual appetite.  I won't do it.  You'll have a better partner if you let her be more assertive.

I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me.  Are you saying try to stick it in her ass without warning, and see how she reacts?

I'm only disagreeing that we should go into sex in some unconscious, nonverbal way where there is any standard assumptions to which either party is entitled.  Like we tell kids, use your words.

[John V]

So you just assume that all women should know what a standard path to sex consists of so

Yes, I assume that an adult woman who isn't mentally disabled understands standard paths to sex. Why wouldn't I?

that any failure on her part to stop you equals consent?  Yuck.

Your alternative is?

[Shell B]

Many people have been in her place.  Many people have made decisions in that position that are difficult to reconcile after the fact.  You may have been more level headed or vocal than others (to a point) - but that doesn't change the utter commonness of her story.  

She felt uncomfortable, somehow compelled.and really doesn't know why she did what she did.

I've never said any differently. I wasn't level-headed or more vocal on some occasions. I've had sex I later regretted. Just because I don't know why I did what I did doesn't mean someone else made me do it.

[John V]

In this case this is not so . I challenge you to point out were reading what i wrote was unclear .

Well that's a subjective thing, and I don't really feel like starting down a road that finishes with me being told my reading comprehension sucks. But it's just a funny thing that people say. Blame the other persons reading ability rather than just clarify what you meant.

Particularly from Tiz, who's one of the sloppiest writers on this forum.

[Whateverist]

So you just assume that all women should know what a standard path to sex consists of so

Yes, I assume that an adult woman who isn't mentally disabled understands standard paths to sex. Why wouldn't I?

that any failure on her part to stop you equals consent?  Yuck.

Your alternative is?

I messages.  Be verbal about what you want.  Don't be a used car salesman looking to close the deal.  Really listen for what she wants.  If she doesn't want it, do you still want it?  Not me.

Make her own her own desires.  A little awkwardness in the beginning will get you somewhere better in the end.

[henryp]

This is what I was talking about earlier.  If you're progressing on a standard path to reasonably vanilla sex, it's one thing.

Took her back to his apartment.
Kissed her.
Felt her up.
Took off her clothes and his own clothes.

That's a pretty standard path to sex.

But once you start veering off into some weirder shit, you probably need to actively look for some consent.

If she hands you a rubber, after you put it on, you don't need to say "can I put it in you now?" That's safely implied.  But you also don't get to assume you can fuck her in the ass because you gave her a rubber.

And he didn't fuck her in the ass, or anywhere else.

I think once you introduce the weird power dynamic stuff, in this case shoving your fingers down her throat, that's not something you can assume you have consent for because she got naked.

[The Grand Nudger]

Why? I do it just fine.

All well and good, but that doesn't change the fact that the response we're categorizing as "irresponisble" is common.  If someone acts in a manner entirely predictable by reference to their cultural norms we have to concede that forces stronger than their personal responsibility are effecting their seemingly irrational decision-making.  

You "do it" just fine.  Many people don't.  

None of which I'm okay with, excepting maybe the liquor. You have to make a choice there as an adult. If she's already drunk, you need to chill.

I never said the status quo was all good. I said what is being proposed is not good, either. If you tell women that they are helpless long enough, they believe it.

Right, which is all that Wallym seems to have been mentioning - that's why I suggested that you weren't disagreeing.  

I was referring to your earlier comments about expressing your utter lack of desire and consent more thoroughly than we're positing the girl in question to have done, btw, when mentioning that you didn't respond the way she did.

[Whateverist]

Many people have been in her place.  Many people have made decisions in that position that are difficult to reconcile after the fact.  You may have been more level headed or vocal than others (to a point) - but that doesn't change the utter commonness of her story.  

She felt uncomfortable, somehow compelled.and really doesn't know why she did what she did.

I've never said any differently. I wasn't level-headed or more vocal on some occasions. I've had sex I later regretted. Just because I don't know what I did what I did doesn't mean someone else made me do it.

Me too (to the bolded).  But what else is there that we always get right, especially regarding something most people are so secretive about.  People get very little guidance here.  We're all going to make mistakes.  And I agree we shouldn't look to scapegoat the person we made the mistake with.

[The Grand Nudger]

I messages.  Be verbal about what you want.  Don't be a used car salesman looking to close the deal.  Really listen for what she wants.  If she doesn't want it, do you still want it?  Not me.

Make her own her own desires.  A little awkwardness in the beginning will get you somewhere better in the end.

I think that some of us realize that sooner than others after the intial blundering puberty phase.  Get her to take you home, get her to be overtly filthy about what -she- wants, make her work for it...exuberantly, lol. The other poor suckers will go home alone and wonder what kind of next level game you run in private. Every bar has at least one girl dying to be given the opportunity to be the sexual aggressor, in my experience.

[Tiberius]

I think it's an interesting observation that most of the women in this thread seem to questioning the accusations (as it pertains to the actions being assault) while most of the men seem to be fine with labeling Aziz as guilty / a rapist.