Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist

[Whateverist]

I messages.  Be verbal about what you want.  Don't be a used car salesman looking to close the deal.  Really listen for what she wants.  If she doesn't want it, do you still want it?  Not me.

Make her own her own desires.  A little awkwardness in the beginning will get you somewhere better in the end.

I think that some of us realize that sooner than others after the intial blundering puberty phase.  Get her to take you home, get her to be overtly filthy about what -she- wants, make her work for it...exuberantly, lol.  The other poor suckers will go home alone and wonder what kind of next level game you run in private.  

Yep it's more fun and more empowering for both parties.

[LadyForCamus]

Here's the thing, gross chicks are going to do the same things to guys.

The real problem is that you can't change that system unless you start to call unsolicited kisses sexual assault. That's literally how humans initiate sexual encounters. You go in for the kiss and see what happens. If it works, you take it a step further, as Aziz did, and keep going until you hit a dead end. Both women and men have to be clear about the dead end. And, yes, people are going to kiss you (or try to kiss you) sometimes. It's going to be gross, but it's not illegal and shouldn't be because, well, slippery ass slope.

If the woman literally gets fucked over, she's been raped. That's already illegal.

Is it not PC to expect women to take any responsibility for themselves? Have we flipped completely over to the idea that women are helpless and instead of treating them as the wife-beaters of old did, we now treat them like children who can't possibly navigate the icky world of dating? I, for one, don't like the idea that I'm a voiceless victim in every encounter any more than I like the idea that I'm inferior and need to be punished. This doesn't help women, and it's definitely going to hurt men.

In all my life, I’ve only ever had one guy ask to kiss me before he did it.  I thought it was kind of adorable, but I didn’t consider it necessary in the moment, lol.

[Whateverist]

I think it's an interesting observation that most of the women in this thread seem to questioning the accusations (as it pertains the actions being assault) while most of the men seem to be fine with labeling Aziz as guilty / a rapist.

I have to confess, I haven't gone to the link and have just been addressing people's comments.  Aziz isn't here to talk to, so I'm more interested in what the people here think.  I don't really care who is guilty.

[The Grand Nudger]

I just think he's a creeper, on the basis of the narrative.  I didn't see any denials of the particulars of the event..only the notion that everything "seemed fine" to Ansari.

Everything was obviously not fine or going well.

[Catholic_Lady]

I think it's an interesting observation that most of the women in this thread seem to questioning the accusations (as it pertains the actions being assault) while most of the men seem to be fine with labeling Aziz as guilty / a rapist.

I noticed this as well. Wonder why that is?

[John V]

I think once you introduce the weird power dynamic stuff, in this case shoving your fingers down her throat, that's not something you can assume you have consent for because she got naked.

Yep, you find out about deviations from standard vanilla sex by trying and seeing if it's accepted. The woman says that he put his fingers in her mouth repeatedly - i.e. she's letting him do it. Why wouldn't he think things were going OK?

[henryp]

I think it's an interesting observation that most of the women in this thread seem to questioning the accusations (as it pertains the actions being assault) while most of the men seem to be fine with labeling Aziz as guilty / a rapist.

I noticed this as well. Wonder why that is?

I think the semantics over it being 'assault' is a distraction.  I think the issue is whether it's a problem and how to deal with it, which I don't think the divide is as big.  Where I see the difference is Shell B wanting women to chiefly be responsible, and others wanting the responsibility to be shared more?  So for all the back and forth, I don't think anyone is too far apart in the end.

[J a c k]

I don’t want sex, if it goes like this:
Person A: I want to have sex with you. Do you consent?
Person B: I consent. Where do I sign?

I want it to build up to the moment. Don’t want the sex? Say something. Refuse. Don’t give the dude oral sex and expect him to get the hint. Already did it and want to stop? Say it. Say you’re done. Make it clear. Women have a voice and we can use it. If we’re clear enough and they still push back, then there’s no doubt. It’s assault. If we go down this path, we’ll be needing consent forms. No, thanks.

I’m not blaming the girl, btw. I just fail to see how this dude is a predator.

[Shell B]

I think it's an interesting observation that most of the women in this thread seem to questioning the accusations (as it pertains the actions being assault) while most of the men seem to be fine with labeling Aziz as guilty / a rapist.

They'll say it's because society trained us that way. We lack agency, you see.

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Khem, I know that this cut and dry shit isn't easy for other people. That doesn't mean that isn't the status quo we should be aiming toward. I don't want the status quo to be that all men are considered rapists until they prove constant enthusiastic consent.

[The Grand Nudger]

I’m not blaming the girl, btw. I just fail to see how this dude is a predator.

He chased a girl around the house applying the claw and asking her where she wanted to be fucked until she..by her own account, just lost her damned mind and blew him, lol.  That's how.  There's a fair bit of leeway between predatory behavior and what can get you collared for a rape.  

Do the ladies not know this?