Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist

[Catholic_Lady]

That's the real chestnut for me.  There's no denial of the events, merely the conjecture that everything seemed like it was going great.  His genuine misapprehension ranks up there for the most tragic part of the story.  It seemed normal and fun, to him, lol.   The other bit, about taking time to reflect on her experience of the event..I wonder what his takeaway was.  Is this something he plans to do, again, with the next girl?  Has he weighed it all, found himself clear, and is looking for another girl to give the claw to?  I highly doubt that a person who really is so genuinely tone deaf does something like this as a one off.  How could he have stopped himself, being oblivious?  

-and what to we tell the next girl if she comes out with a similar story?  "Well, you must have known he was a creepy motherfucker?"  Responsibility, folks.

/sadface.

When I was fourteen or so, I sure had to analyze my failures with the gals, and lord knows they were many (and most likely hilarious in hindsight), and figure out what I did wrong. I still didn't have any issue with understanding "I'm uncomfortable" as meaning "no", and there I was, a stupid teenager with pimples and KISS posters on my wall.

How old's this guy? How many blocks has he been around? Do you really need to be told that if she's moving away from you that's not a good sign?

And yeah, he needs to shitcan that "claw" move, at least until the second or third date at Baskin-Robbins when he can at least pretend to be fishing out some pecan praline stuck in her teeth. Sheesh.

---

"Disrespecting feelings" goes along with all that.

Not sure about "agenda." It is my opinion.

Pay no attention to the username behind the post.

Uh ok

[The Grand Nudger]

When I was fourteen or so, I sure had to analyze my failures with the gals, and lord knows they were many (and most likely hilarious in hindsight), and figure out what I did wrong. I still didn't have any issue with understanding "I'm uncomfortable" as meaning "no", and there I was, a stupid teenager with pimples and KISS posters on my wall.

IKR, obviously personal and anecdotal..but "discomfort" is like kryptonite to my dick.  

Story time...I was accused of date rape, once upon a time.  In my teens.  Not by the girl, by her cousin who walked in on us both drunk and passed out with my hands down her shirt and hers down my pants.  You see..we were both army, and we both played the unavailable game, and we both drank ourselves silly..and we both passed out like common alcoholics.  Nobody got any of their rocks off.  It was my lowest point, lol.  Worst part..we really liked each other, before during and after..but the experience soured any chance for romance between us.  

The whole thing got cleared up when she woke up the next day..but in the interim I'd walked home stumbling drunk over an interstate and a few miles at 0-dark thirty, got straight up run out of the house.....lol.  I didn't even know why until later on he next afternoon, lol.  Stone cold...confused drunk. This was the night I got clipped by a car, minor..I was stumbling in the street and made a lurching dive for the curb when I saw the headlights.  Side view hit my hand and busted a couple of my fingers open to the bone from fingernail to knuckle. I remember putting alot of bandaids on them in front of the bathroom mirror ( for reasons?) and then passing out again. Hospital for more stitches in the am, had to toss my sheets. Lots of blood.

Cant hold it against her cuzzo though..I don't even remember his name. I'm sure he walked in on a scene he never wanted to see, lol. Anybody who didn't get pancakes at the IHOP with them the next am probably still remembers me as a creepy rapist, because they'd never have heard her dismiss their concerns. I just generally don;t sweat it, the sad truth being that if some rando did still think I was a rapist..it would be a relatively mild pockmark on my actual character and actions. I have more egregious violations to account for than any rape or non-rape thought to be rape.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Pay no attention to the username behind the post.

Uh ok

If you need the line drawn more directly, I'll do so.

IKR, obviously personal and anecdotal..but "discomfort" is like kryptonite to my dick.  

Story time...I was accused of date rape, once upon a time.  In my teens.  Not by the girl, by her cousin who walked in on us both drunk and passed out with my hands down her shirt and hers down my pants.  You see..we were both army, and we both played the unavailable game, and we both drank ourselves silly..and we both passed out like common alcoholics.  Nobody got any of their rocks off.  It was my lowest point, lol.  Worst part..we really liked each other, before during and after..but the experience soured any chance for romance between us.  

The whole thing got cleared up when she woke up the next day..but in the interim I'd walked home stumbling drunk over an interstate and a few miles at 0-dark thirty, got straight up run out of the house.....lol.  I didn't even know why until later on he next afternoon, lol.  Stone cold...confused drunk.  This was the night I got clipped by a car, minor..I was stumbling in the street and made a lurching dive for the curb when I saw the headlights.  Side view hit my hand and busted a couple of my fingers open to the bone from fingernail to knuckle.  I remember putting alot of bandaids on them in front of the bathroom mirror ( for reasons?) and then passing out again.  Hospital for more stitches in the am, had to toss my sheets.  Lots of blood.

Cant hold it against her cuzzo though..I don't even remember his name.  I'm sure he walked in on a scene he never wanted to see, lol.  Anybody who didn't get pancakes at the IHOP with them the next am probably still remembers me as a creepy rapist, because they'd never have heard her dismiss their concerns.

lol, I've had a moment or two like that ... no cars involved, though, just wading through a creek in a pair of $400 Dan Posts ... and out the door I went ...

[The Grand Nudger]

Another fun anecdote about a girl that finds herself suddenly uncomfortable and totally ruins the evening for my best man-

I met a girl in germany with an abnormally large clitoris.  Stop snickering..it wasn't a penis..not that that hasn't happened to me too.  It was so big that it just fixated the shit out of me. It was so big that she'd warned me..in advance..of it's existence. In case I spooked like a horse when she took off her pants..I guess? So I'm going down on her and she gets uncomfortable.  Well, that's that.  I'm not even going to stick around to sleep.  Plus, this girl had heard I was from florida so she gave me what passed for OJ to germans and I'd involuntarily spit it out in her face.  Two strikes..not sticking around for the third.  

Small problem..no idea where I was.  No id either...and no money.  So here I am, lost, wandering around a foreign country in the dead of winter.  Sun comes up and I'm still lost.  Three hours late to formation....and straight up nobody there would buy an ounce of my story about getting lost after a girl with a giant clit which definitely wasn't a penis got so uncomfortable with her own clit I had to pull the ripcord.  They did believe the bit about the juice though.......apparently that's a thing, they water it down.

So..there are two stories of indiscretion and awkwardness, of poor decisionmaking on the part of multiple parties...and still...I havent approached the ansari threshold where I'm feeding quarters to the slot and trying to extract a plushie.

(now..she actually did end up thinking it was her clit that made me leave, it was this whole thing with her...but the real irony is that she introduced me to one of her best buds as a sot of consolation prize for it not working out, ended up being a good thing for a few weeks, and his clitoris was fuckin yooge. )

[Catholic_Lady]

Darrell, it's absolute bull shit and extremely unfair that when I give my opinion, you accuse me of "promoting my agenda." When I objected to this, all you say is to reference my username. So, because I'm a theist, my opinions on this are to be dismissed as merely my "agenda?" I can't just be a person with an opinion like everyone else here because I'm Catholic?

Fuck that shit. I've always respected you here and considered you one of the people I was on friendly terms with here. We are connected on facebook and have exchanged friendly, personal messages.

...Which is why I don't understand why the past several months you've been a complete ass hole to me on here. I keep brushing stuff off and giving you other chances, refusing to change my positive opinion of you, but now I'm done. Obviously you have an issue with me and are just continuing to be a prick. Good bye.

[The Grand Nudger]

Now, here, we're forced to determine for ourselves whether or not you're as oblivious to your own predictable fetishes as Aziz apparently is.

[Athene]

It's amazing to watch people carry on as if they don't remember that "Grace" DID NOT accuse Ansari of RAPE, but of being a pushy, piggy, creep. Perhaps the reason she considered his behavior to be noteworthy, AND the reason why the press saw fit to run the story, was because the guy was clearing misrepresenting himself in purporting to be a staunch ally/supporter of sexual harassment and misconduct awareness.

Like it or not, such blatant hypocrisy on the part of a well-known celebrity is indeed considered newsworthy.
 
Yet and still, we have many folks, including women (many of whom are sexual assault survivors) enthusiastically try 'Grace" in the Most High Court of Shoulda Woulda Coulda and determine her to be not a victim of anything even resembling mistreatment, due to her personal "failings" and "stupidity", but fail remarkably at holding "poor Aziz" to the same rigorous standards and scrutiny of what "should've" been done.

Unfortunately, it's just not uncommon for some survivors of sexual assault to engage in vehement victim-blaming. They've been socialized to do so, along with everyone else. 
Still, it's pretty sickening to watch. Very sad.

[Longhorn]

Lol. I don’t think anyone here called this woman stupid, or Ansari poor. The general consensus on this side of the argument appears to be that he is indeed a creep and that she wasn’t communicative or assertive enough. Argument aside, I find that to be a complete misrepresentation of what people here are saying. Whether they’re women or sexual assault survivors is irrelevant.

And if she didn’t even accuse him of rape, how is this victim blaming done by victims?

[Athene]

Lol. I don’t think anyone here called this woman stupid, or Ansari poor. The general consensus on this side of the argument appears to be that he is indeed a creep and that she wasn’t communicative or assertive enough. Argument aside, I find that to be a complete misrepresentation of what people here are saying. Whether they’re women or sexual assault survivors is irrelevant.

And if she didn’t even accuse him of rape, how is this victim blaming done by victims?

His actions were not unlawful, but they were wrong, ethically. 
She was mistreated.

Yet many folks seem to quite happy to hold her primarily responsible for this "unfortunate misunderstanding", and chose only to touch lightly on Mr Ansari's lack of "smooth moves" while expressing dismay/concern/outrage that his comedy career might take a hit.

[The Grand Nudger]

It wasn't so much that he lacked smooth moves as that he only had the one move...and it was to be a total creep.

I agree with you, on the above..I think that some people genuinely don't see themselves as engaging in that..though, and while I suspect that this is part of the larger problem..I doubt you'll make any headway on that. As a peace offering, I've proposed that we could imagine the worst..if we wanted to..about the girl - but that doesn't change ansaris role. I've also suggested that..if we really wanted to consider this issue deeply, the notion that she just wasn't assertive enough, and that this somehow meaningfully shifts a portion of the responsibility to her - and causes us to consider or modify aziz' desert, in this..... is going to end up being sketchy...at best.

We're allowed to posit that a person did not commit a rape..but only escaped that classification on a technicality. Reasonable limits of the law and all that. That may not make them a rapist...but it makes them the conceptual and social equivalent of a rapist in a meaningful way. Their means of force or coercion simply being subtle enough (or bumbling enough) for us to let them take a mulligan on that one bad night.