Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?

[KevinM1]

Seems to me the best solutions for god are:

1. Stop making new people, since they're inherently sinful and most will wind up in a state of hell (and, continuing to make people who will suffer (even if you go by Steve's notion of omniscience, I presume the Christian god can extrapolate from past data) isn't a moral act)

or

2. Skip the middle step and simply directly populate heaven with the kinds of entities he wants

[Catholic_Lady]

For the record, I do agree that Heaven is a state of perfect holiness and we cannot be in that state until our hearts are completely pure.

Steve, what are your thoughts on Purgatory? Purgatory makes sense to me, personally. It allows the person to transition into a state of perfect holiness before reaching Heaven, since I assume the vast majority of us are not there yet when we die.

I'm not sure any Protestant group believes in Purgatory. Almost all doctrine in Protestant churches is supported directly with the Bible (sola scriptura) and I don't think there is a reading of the Bible that gives us Purgatory. 

Most don't realize the most significant difference between the two main branches of Christianity is that the Catholic Church follows the doctrine that the Catholic Church (via the Pope--the direct spiritual successor of the Apostle Peter) continues to be a conduit for new revelation from God that can add to the NT with the authority of Christ himself. The protestant branch believes that nothing should be added to the NT. Understanding this helps in understanding why there are added layers that Catholics believe.

Ok. Yeah, I was aware that purgatory was mainly a catholic belief, but didn't know if there were still denominations of protestant out there that thought it might be a possibility.

[emjay]

I don't think the Bible leaves much room for misunderstanding on that point: "... he who believeth in me shall have eternal life"; it is belief that is being tested, first and foremost... illogical as that is. What you suggest is IMO how it should be if it was in any way logical. So if God exists I'd expect to go to hell as an atheist, but if I was allowed any last words to God before I was sent down, then in all good conscience I couldn't go down without saying: "you tested the wrong thing; Satan saw you and knew your power but still chose to defy you; that was the right test... a test of his obedience given that he knew you were God. But to humans you did not give that knowledge, only the capacity to believe... but where belief is anything but straightforward, not just in terms of variable levels of skepticism, but also in terms of succeptibility to all sorts of influence, internal and external, conscious and subconscious, wilful and not. To test that - not to mention creating a brain with all those sorts of complications in belief possible in the first place - rather than obedience given innate knowledge of God, is utterly illogical."

If there does happen to be a god thinking about sending me to hell when I die, I want to bring emjay along as my lawyer

Are you sure you'd really wanna do that? The above is me pleading "No Contest"... ie those are last words, not pleading a case... but thanks for the compliment

[Neo-Scholastic]

Most don't realize the most significant difference between the two main branches of Christianity is that the Catholic Church follows the doctrine that the Catholic Church (via the Pope--the direct spiritual successor of the Apostle Peter) continues to be a conduit for new revelation from God that can add to the NT with the authority of Christ himself. The protestant branch believes that nothing should be added to the NT. Understanding this helps in understanding why there are added layers that Catholics believe.

I wouldn't say adding new revelation is really accurate. The Pope can confirm and validate new special revelations such as Marian visitations and saintly miracles but he cannot reverse previous doctrine. What he can do is clarify minor points within previously established doctrine, like the way Talmudic scholars argue over how many melons you can pick-up on the Sabbath before it's considered scattered fruit.

[shadow]

If there does happen to be a god thinking about sending me to hell when I die, I want to bring emjay along as my lawyer

Are you sure you'd really wanna do that? The above is me pleading "No Contest"... ie those are last words, not pleading a case... but thanks for the compliment

Oh yes, I wouldn't actually want to end up in Heaven...  I wouldn't fit in there at all. But a good sassy word to god before heading into the abyss, that would be perfect.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Ok. Yeah, I was aware that purgatory was mainly a catholic belief, but didn't know if there were still denominations of protestant out there that thought it might be a possibility.

The concept is not entirely foreign to Protestantism. 1 Corithians 3:15 & Malachi 3:2 both describe people being purged of their sins. I would say that what Protestants object to is not the concept of being purged of sin; but rather, they object to the notion of a spatially distinct and temporally enduring spiritual state set aside for the refining process.

[SteveII]

I'm not sure any Protestant group believes in Purgatory. Almost all doctrine in Protestant churches is supported directly with the Bible (sola scriptura) and I don't think there is a reading of the Bible that gives us Purgatory. 

Most don't realize the most significant difference between the two main branches of Christianity is that the Catholic Church follows the doctrine that the Catholic Church (via the Pope--the direct spiritual successor of the Apostle Peter) continues to be a conduit for new revelation from God that can add to the NT with the authority of Christ himself. The protestant branch believes that nothing should be added to the NT. Understanding this helps in understanding why there are added layers that Catholics believe.

Ok. Yeah, I was aware that purgatory was mainly a catholic belief, but didn't know if there were still denominations of protestant out there that thought it might be a possibility.

Sorry for the sometimes long, basic, or redundant answers that might be more than was required. I am constantly aware there are other people reading that might benefit/or be interested in learning from a longer answer.

[Brian37]

Are you sure you'd really wanna do that? The above is me pleading "No Contest"... ie those are last words, not pleading a case... but thanks for the compliment

Oh yes, I wouldn't actually want to end up in Heaven...  I wouldn't fit in there at all. But a good sassy word to god before heading into the abyss, that would be perfect.

The great thing is that there is no heaven or hell to be in. 

Kissing someone's ass for eternity sounds boring. But hell is supposed to be eternal punishment beyond imagination, don't know how that would be corrective if it is forever. But neither appeal to me.

[Catholic_Lady]

Ok. Yeah, I was aware that purgatory was mainly a catholic belief, but didn't know if there were still denominations of protestant out there that thought it might be a possibility.

Sorry for the sometimes long, basic, or redundant answers that might be more than was required. I am constantly aware there are other people reading that might benefit/or be interested in learning from a longer answer.

No apologies!

[emjay]

Are you sure you'd really wanna do that? The above is me pleading "No Contest"... ie those are last words, not pleading a case... but thanks for the compliment

Oh yes, I wouldn't actually want to end up in Heaven...  I wouldn't fit in there at all. But a good sassy word to god before heading into the abyss, that would be perfect.

Another one... I'm on a roll today I've never been called sassy before But in all seriousness, that's exactly what I'd have to say in all good conscience... if I died today and it turned out it was all true and it was indeed only about belief.