Evolution

[Nay_Sayer]

Bold mine.  We're on the same side although my faith has the correct age of the earth at 74,922 years, 95 days, 362 hours and your's does not.

We do believe in evolution but only on the micro, I'd challenge you or anyone else to show me little things adding up to big things, laughable.

You are best not to change a quote, it gets messy doesn't it?

---

1. It's not 

2. Just because we are the first to describe it in formal scientific terms has no bearing on the process itself .

Should we expect some evolution ideas to show up in history?

Regardless my points stand.
Ramen

[Amarok]

And chemicals just exist by themselves don't they? In theory that is.

Like all building blocks, such as atoms - they just work and oscillate by themselves - endlessly?

Ignorance 

[Banned]

Darwin said "change through time". There is no crocoducks, just small changes that accumulate. We've had half a billion years to get to where we are, no need to rush things.

Small changes over time scales that exceed observed history?

---

Should we assume that the designed object has intelligence?

 Should we assume anything is "designed" unless it is a computer or car?

To assume that something sophisticated and purposeful is the result of intelligent design, is normal compared to assuming that such was just found in a swamp.

---

To always look for an answer that's a better fit for the known facts. You know, the way science already does. POE.

Then why is it only a modern idea?

Because it's only relatively recently that we've had the science to study it properly. POE.

How does it go? "ever seeking the truth but never finding it."

---

Banned wrote: Should we expect some evolution ideas to show up in history?

Even if it had not it does not change the process of evolution .

So we aren't really going by evidence any more?

[Angrboda]

The original point was that there is a third alternative that is neither intelligent design nor randomness.  Of course self-organizing systems make use of causes.  Causes are ordered patterns of behavior, the exact opposite of randomness.  And self-organization bootstraps the order inherent in natural causes to create ordered systems out of disordered matter.   No intelligence needed.  Your response was that self-organizing processes do not exist.  Pointing out that self-organized systems make use of natural causes doesn't in any way answer Mathilda's point that the order resulting from self-organization is neither intelligent design nor happenstance.   Or are you going to simply beg the question by asserting that order exists because God exists?  If so, why bother with the claim that you have evidence that things are intelligently designed?  If you're just going to assert that without evidence, then you rightly deserve to fuck off.

If you think that order comes from chaos, then you might like to consider that there is no such thing as chaos.

Order and chaos are relative terms. Order implies the existence of chaos. Chaos implies the existence of order.

You might want to think about the actual meaning of the words you use before you spit out your next zen koan.

Still waiting for a cogent response to the point under consideration.

[Banned]

Regardless my points stand.
Ramen

I appreciated what you posted.

[Amarok]

So we aren't really going by evidence any more?

Yes we are.Pointing out that evolution as a scientific  theory was only figured out  recently . Has no bearing on the fact that it happened and has always happened and continues to happen. How you managed to interpret my comment otherwise is beyond me.

[Banned]

If you think that order comes from chaos, then you might like to consider that there is no such thing as chaos.

Order and chaos are relative terms. Order implies the existence of chaos. Chaos implies the existence of order.

You might want to think about the actual meaning of the words you use before you spit out your next zen koan.

Still waiting for a cogent response to the point under consideration.

Does that view allow us to say that there isn't any such thing as pure chaos, let alone a way in which it can produce order?

---

So we aren't really going by evidence any more?

Yes we are.Pointing out that evolution as a scientific  theory was only figured out  recently . Has no bearing on the fact that it happened and has always happened and continues to happen. How you managed to interpret my comment otherwise is beyond me.

I understand that evolution stands as a theory, though it be on one leg.

[Amarok]

Small changes over time scales that exceed observed history?

Some 

To assume that something sophisticated and purposeful is the result of intelligent design, is normal compared to assuming that such was just found in a swamp.

Only to you and your ilk 

How does it go? "ever seeking the truth but never finding it."

Every seeking truth and gradually finding it through painstaking work

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And pure chemistry is the cause, so we've found it and can now move on. Well done, sir, well done!

And chemicals just exist by themselves don't they? In theory that is.
Like all building blocks, such as atoms - they just work and oscillate by themselves - endlessly?

You do chemistry in the kitchen if you cook at home. There's nothing really mysterious about it. You can make iron oxide by leaving iron in a damp environment. No miracle, just chemistry.

[Amarok]

I understand that evolution stands as a theory, though it be on one leg.

Evolution stands as a fact and it stands on a impregnable foundation.