Peterson's 12 Rules For Life, have you heard of this?

[Amarok]

Umm nope 

The catcher may originated with the Ojibwe but as Natives view us all as the same people it was freely exchanged and adopted by other Native peoples like many cultural idea's among Native Americans. Please note i never said in my original comment that the Inuit invented the dream catcher however it is a Native object that many many many tribes use it for the same purpose as the Ojibwe and this is recognized by the tribe itself  .So no i did not use another tribes object as an "excuse " for outrage as it part of my culture too thus i have every right to be angry it's a symbol of Native unity.. So nope still more nothing from you .  


And yes i will sigh and laugh as long as you keep saying foolish stuff like this comment .But enjoy your drink consider it a consultation prize .

[bennyboy]

Umm nope 

The catcher may originated with the Ojibwe but as Natives view us all as the same people it was freely exchanged and adopted by other Native peoples like many cultural idea's among Native Americans. Please note i never said in my original comment that the Inuit invented the dream catcher however it is a Native object that many many many tribes use it for the same purpose as the Ojibwe and this is recognized by the tribe itself  .So no i did not use another tribes object as an "excuse " for outrage as it part of my culture too thus i have every right to be angry it's a symbol of Native unity.. So nope still more nothing from you .  


And yes i will sigh and laugh as long as you keep saying foolish stuff like this comment .But enjoy your drink consider it a consultation prize .

Yeah, it's almost like the Ojibwe, not being petty, were happy for the people they interacted with to take an interest in their cultural creation, and take pleasure in adopting it for their own use.

As far as I know, almost every tribe in Canada has native art stores where people of any race, creed or color with an interest in native culture can go buy things like dream catchers.  It's almost like they consider the interest of non-natives in their artistic work a good thing.  Here's a photo of the Devil appropriating a particularly large and expensive native artifact, right in my home town. I hope he manages to avoid the unified rage of the combined native peoples of Canada:



But that's probably just art-- it's not spiritual in significance, right? Thank god no white person would ever be allowed to wear, say. . . a ceremonial head dress?

[EgoDeath]

Peterson has some good ideas when it comes to personal responsibility. He also has some interesting ideas about psychology... Beyond that he tends to veer off into the field of horseshit. He's insanely disingenuous any time he discusses religion or god, which is annoying.

I do appreciate the sort of "pull yourself up by the bootstraps and fix your life" type of stuff because many, many more people could benefit from some serious self-reflection than currently realize it.

Peterson has some good ideas but the religious shit is just too much for me. I think he wrote a decent self-help book. He might even be an interesting professor to have. That's about it.

I understand this sentiment but he loves talking about leading edge psychology from the 80s, which ends up being a lot of outdated shit mixed in.

I don't know if that's accurate or not but doesn't really change my opinion of Peterson. I like the guy, I think he's got some good ideas. I also disagree with a LOT of stuff he says. I enjoyed the book he wrote, that's about as far as it goes. As to whether or not he teaches "outdated" psychological concepts... I can't comment on that. I have no degree in psychology and I won't pretend to. To each their own though.

[Rev. Rye]

I don't know if that's accurate or not but doesn't really change my opinion of Peterson. I like the guy, I think he's got some good ideas. I also disagree with a LOT of stuff he says. I enjoyed the book he wrote, that's about as far as it goes. As to whether or not he teaches "outdated" psychological concepts... I can't comment on that. I have no degree in psychology and I won't pretend to. To each their own though.

Well, he is re-popularising Jungian philosophy in the modern era, and bringing the more questionable right-wing subtext in Jung and Campbell to the forefront, but, as compelling as it can be, and certainly it's a good lens to understand culture, it doesn't mean that mythology is necessarily a good lens through which to understand how human psychology works, let alone what makes people happy. Here's an article about it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh, please.  The PC Left so very clearly target white males as a privileged and oppressive demographic.  Then someone says, "Hey.  I don't like the demonization of white males, because I happen to be one, and I don't think what you're saying is true about me."  That's not a script, Khem.  It's a natural reaction to ideological harassment. 

So..discrimination, stigmitization and denial of pride.  Check and check.  

I'm sure you'll keep saying *sigh* or *headslap* and talking to your moral support person, but you're dumb to keep trying to alienate me, because I really do think that except for our perception of the particular sub-branch of the left called PC, our world views align more than they differentiate.

I'm sure they do.  

Were the things I said about Tiz and cultural appropriation "their script?"   Was the talk about the best way to release prisoners "their script"?  Was sitting down and doing the actual math on a $15 minimum wage and then suggesting greater financial incentives for released prisoners "their script?"

No, and here's the thing.  I can agree with 90% of what you think, and disagree with 10%, but that 10% automatically constitutes an association with alt-right nutjobs, and instantly bars me from inclusion in the PC Left.  That is, quite precisely, because a religious view tolerates no heresy.  So you can talk about me being indoctrinated, but I'd recommend you try holding up a mirror first.

Tell me more about your self esteem and how this all makes you feel.  Might wanna throw in a few comments about the attempted abrogation of your free speech rights, as well.

4/5 aint bad.

Hey, at least you're not going full white genocide , right? All of this clearly stems from your frustration at being associated with alt-right positions and politics, specifically, the white supremacy that's made it's way back into the mainstream over the past 30 years or so. Who's doing the associating, I have to ask? Me for pointing out how effective their narrative framing has been, both generally and in your individual case? Or you.....for reading their script?

Here's a real head scratcher, when you tell me that you "met a guy" who pulled the race card on you. I wonder whether you interact and communicate with people beyond the boards in a manner similar to the way you interact and communicate on the boards. If so.....I can make an obvious suggestion as to why you might feel as though people associate you with those positions and that ideology, why you field complaints about The Man and The Unfairness of it All...

..and it's not because of the color of your skin or because you're being harassed.

Ultimately, I don't think that you fuck with white supremacy, but it's clear that you sympathize with the case they make and..honestly, that's far more important to white supremacy as a cultural or political movement (or component in either). It's really unlikely that a person who isn't deeply racist to their core is ever going to go to the lilly white darkside. So, it becomes important to form sanitized ideological associations through allies. It's still not okay to be a white supremacist, so they need non-white supremacists to sell the white victimization complex. Which you do, unfailingly.

[bennyboy]

Were the things I said about Tiz and cultural appropriation "their script?"   Was the talk about the best way to release prisoners "their script"?  Was sitting down and doing the actual math on a $15 minimum wage and then suggesting greater financial incentives for released prisoners "their script?"

No, and here's the thing.  I can agree with 90% of what you think, and disagree with 10%, but that 10% automatically constitutes an association with alt-right nutjobs, and instantly bars me from inclusion in the PC Left.  That is, quite precisely, because a religious view tolerates no heresy.  So you can talk about me being indoctrinated, but I'd recommend you try holding up a mirror first.

Tell me more about your self esteem and how this all makes you feel.  Might wanna throw in a few comments about the attempted abrogation of your free speech rights, as well.

4/5 aint bad.

Hey, at least you're not going full white genocide , right?  All of this clearly stems from your frustration at being associated with alt-right positions and politics, specifically, the white supremacy that's made it's way back into the mainstream over the past 30 years or so.  Who's doing the associating, I have to ask?  Me for pointing out how effective their narrative framing has been, both generally and in your individual case?  Or you.....for reading their script?

Here's a real head scratcher, when you tell me that you "met a guy" who pulled the race card on you.  I wonder whether you interact and communicate with people beyond the boards in a manner similar to the way you interact and communicate on the boards.  If so.....I can make an obvious suggestion as to why you might feel as though people associate you with those positions and ideology, why you field complaints about The Man and The Unfairess of it All...

..and it's not because of the color of your skin or because you're being harassed.

You forgot to tell me that, in mentioning I'm part native and married to a Korean woman, I'm virtue signaling.  You also have funny counting.  I count exactly one thing from that list-- do you count others?  Why don't you tell me which ones, exactly?

If you wonder if I interact in the same way, then that's hard to say.  I don't usually speak in 50 pages worth of prose. I don't normally discuss politics, either.

I'm pretty sure I didn't tell you I "met a guy" who pulled the race card on me-- unless, of course, he had some benefit to gain, then why wouldn't he, if he thought he could?

[The Grand Nudger]

I could go back through all 50 pages of this thread and quote you on the numerous occasions that you've sold the white victimization complex..but I shouldn't have to, and I won't. 

Besides..what did pointing it out the first time do.....except but to re-enforce the idea that your white victimization complaints were accurate.

[bennyboy]

I could go back through all 50 pages of this thread and quote you on the numerous occasions that you've sold the white victimization complex..but I shouldn't have to, and I won't. 

Besides..what did pointing it out the first time do.....except but to re-enforce the idea that your white victimization complaints were accurate.

I've never done any such thing, that's just how you spin it.

People interact.  Sometimes people who are white are treated rudely, and would rather not be.  There's nothing particularly insidious or alt-right about that.  That you think any of those stories are complaints about victimization, rather than complaints about people who used the politics of demographics to dodge responsibility, then you're wrong.  I've expressed anxiety about it for the simple reason that shitty employees are a burden to a business, and you never know when you're going to get one.

I've never said I think white people are under threat, or that because I'm white, I'm a walking target.  I said that sometimes, people try to use a PC card to turn the tables on an argument which is completely lost-- like whether they are or aren't fulfilling the details of a contract faithfully.

[EgoDeath]

I don't know if that's accurate or not but doesn't really change my opinion of Peterson. I like the guy, I think he's got some good ideas. I also disagree with a LOT of stuff he says. I enjoyed the book he wrote, that's about as far as it goes. As to whether or not he teaches "outdated" psychological concepts... I can't comment on that. I have no degree in psychology and I won't pretend to. To each their own though.

Well, he is re-popularising Jungian philosophy in the modern era, and bringing the more questionable right-wing subtext in Jung and Campbell to the forefront, but, as compelling as it can be, and certainly it's a good lens to understand culture, it doesn't mean that mythology is necessarily a good lens through which to understand how human psychology works, let alone what makes people happy. Here's an article about it.

Okay, that's fine. I don't think it's necessarily wrong to use mythology to teach a lesson, so long as we are discerning what's myth and what isn't. I thought Peterson's use of the story of the snake in Eden, for example, was interesting in reference to why our eyes evolved to recognize dangers in the environment, like snakes. Also, Jung's teachings are hardly outdated. Though, as I said before, I don't profess to be any sort of expert on psychology.

None of this really changes my opinion on Peterson. I don't pay attention to him much outside of reading the book and maybe watching bits of his lectures on YouTube once in a blue moon.

[Amarok]

Umm nope 

The catcher may originated with the Ojibwe but as Natives view us all as the same people it was freely exchanged and adopted by other Native peoples like many cultural idea's among Native Americans. Please note i never said in my original comment that the Inuit invented the dream catcher however it is a Native object that many many many tribes use it for the same purpose as the Ojibwe and this is recognized by the tribe itself  .So no i did not use another tribes object as an "excuse " for outrage as it part of my culture too thus i have every right to be angry it's a symbol of Native unity.. So nope still more nothing from you .  


And yes i will sigh and laugh as long as you keep saying foolish stuff like this comment .But enjoy your drink consider it a consultation prize .

Yeah, it's almost like the Ojibwe, not being petty, were happy for the people they interacted with to take an interest in their cultural creation, and take pleasure in adopting it for their own use.

As far as I know, almost every tribe in Canada has native art stores where people of any race, creed or color with an interest in native culture can go buy things like dream catchers.  It's almost like they consider the interest of non-natives in their artistic work a good thing.  Here's a photo of the Devil appropriating a particularly large and expensive native artifact, right in my home town.  I hope he manages to avoid the unified rage of the combined native peoples of Canada:



But that's probably just art-- it's not spiritual in significance, right?  Thank god no white person would ever be allowed to wear, say. . . a ceremonial head dress?

1. There is a difference between getting it from a native store and buying it from a dollar store .You clearly are not pointing out the difference in this thread . Also their difference between non natives buying something and natives adopting a native custom .

2.That photo would not be appropriation and nobodies calling him a devil or angry at him for doing so . If he had bought it from  Dollarama made in a sweatshop in China then it probably would as that is appropriation. So spare me your whinging about how were picking on white people .

3. As for your knock at Trudeau it was a native ceremony on native issues so......

Oh and if your going to start saying that wasn't your original position i already in  this thread i changed my position since that thread and Shell and Jess were at least partially right .You know the one acknowledge your help on that thread ? Still i am legitimately angry at appropriation and it's not remotely petty to be so . So again enjoy your consultation prize .