Peterson's 12 Rules For Life, have you heard of this?

[bennyboy]

I think you are buying too much into the leftist script, though you probably don't even realize it. They have programmed you so well, how could you?

[Amarok]

No Benny that would be you

[The Grand Nudger]

I could go back through all 50 pages of this thread and quote you on the numerous occasions that you've sold the white victimization complex..but I shouldn't have to, and I won't. 

Besides..what did pointing it out the first time do.....except but to re-enforce the idea that your white victimization complaints were accurate.

I've never done any such thing, that's just how you spin it.

People interact.  Sometimes people who are white are treated rudely, and would rather not be.  There's nothing particularly insidious or alt-right about that.  That you think any of those stories are complaints about victimization, rather than complaints about people who used the politics of demographics to dodge responsibility, then you're wrong.  I've expressed anxiety about it for the simple reason that shitty employees are a burden to a business, and you never know when you're going to get one.

I've never said I think white people are under threat, or that because I'm white, I'm a walking target.  I said that sometimes, people try to use a PC card to turn the tables on an argument which is completely lost-- like whether they are or aren't fulfilling the details of a contract faithfully.

You think that the pc left and sjw's are most definitely attacking whites, somehow.  You even think that I'm being a terrible racist shitwad to you..somehow, lol.  There's no point in hedging that, watering it down, or walking it back.  I don't know what other people do, but I wonder why I would need to turn the tables on some losing argument in this thread.  Has there been a single point at which you haven't been utterly and inescapably wrong?  

I'll point out again that the white victimization complex, and even more specifically the white victimization complex as it relates to lefist politics, political correctness, and social justice..... is the normalizing language of white supremacy.  It depends on people not realizing that the individual complaints are factually inaccurate, and even more importantly it depends on people not realizing that it's the normalizing language of white supremacy.  

Your anxiety as regards what the pc left, sj, or any random "leftist extremist" is doing is deeply and plainly informed by that language, as is petersons, and is wholly wrong - as demonstrated by every single example in this thread.  People like Peterson provide intellectual cover through their irrelevant (and suspect) credentials..whereas folks like yourself provide emotional and social cover by earnest rejection of any suggestion that they might have inadvertently picked up this position.  Everyone, ofc..is just telling it like it is™.

This is all working as intended.

[EgoDeath]

I don't know if I would call Jungian philosophy outdated, it's still very relevant in analytical psychology. Granted I have a very rudimentary understanding of psychology. I think Peterson's ideas on personal responsibility are a lot more straight-forward than most, "Stand up straight with your shoulders back... choose friends who want the best for you..." This in contrast with other self-help books that tout ideas like, "Follow your passion." All in all I could do without the mythology when it comes to Peterson's teachings, but I don't hate it either.

I don't really have strong feelings about the guy one way or the other. I wouldn't exactly call Peterson right-wing either. I don't think there's anything mind-blowing about the guy but I don't hate him either, as many seem to.

One thing's for sure, he's succeeded in getting people to talk about him. Can't hate the guy for that.

[Whateverist]

I don't know if I would call Jungian philosophy outdated, it's still very relevant in analytical psychology. Granted I have a very rudimentary understanding of psychology.

Me neither but I also find it interesting.

I think Peterson's ideas on personal responsibility are a lot more straight-forward than most, "Stand up straight with your shoulders back... choose friends who want the best for you..."

Choosing friends who want the best for you is sound advice. Good posture on the other hand does not deserve a bullet point as a guide to leading a good life and has no connection to taking responsibility so far as I can tell.

[EgoDeath]

I don't know if I would call Jungian philosophy outdated, it's still very relevant in analytical psychology. Granted I have a very rudimentary understanding of psychology.

Me neither but I also find it interesting.

I think Peterson's ideas on personal responsibility are a lot more straight-forward than most, "Stand up straight with your shoulders back... choose friends who want the best for you..."

Choosing friends who want the best for you is sound advice.  Good posture on the other hand does not deserve a bullet point as a guide to leading a good life and has no connection to taking responsibility so far as I can tell.

I'd have to disagree. Good posture is important in many ways. Not only is it just physically better for you, it is better for your state of mind according to a number of different studies. This isn't an idea Peterson came up with even, it's just out there. I mean I could pick any advice out of any book and say, this is bullshit, this isn't etc. It's all about what helps you. In general, if you don't feel like a piece of advice is helpful, you won't follow it, meaning you'll never reap the benefits. It's sort of like playing the lottery, you can't win if you don't play. The difference is, standing up straight doesn't cost you anything.

I've delved into self-improvement in the last few years so I'm willing to try anything that might help me. If a self-help book is bullshit, so what? I got one or two good things out of in and moved on. It's no skin off my back and only a few dollars out of my bank account. I tend to have a more positive attitude towards the self-help stuff. The only thing you have to be weary about is the authors who push you to subscribe to some monthly "get your life together" service or attend all kinds of monthly seminars and whatnot. That's where you get into the scam realm - i.e. the stuff I'm not interested in. But if I can read a book like 12 Rules and get one good thing out of it, okay, cool.

[paulpablo]

Me neither but I also find it interesting.



Choosing friends who want the best for you is sound advice.  Good posture on the other hand does not deserve a bullet point as a guide to leading a good life and has no connection to taking responsibility so far as I can tell.

I'd have to disagree. Good posture is important in many ways. Not only is it just physically better for you, it is better for your state of mind according to a number of different studies. 

It's also good for self defense to avoid looking like a victim walking in rough areas.  Obviously it's important in a job interview to not slouch, same goes for being on a date.  This is just from my life experience, I haven't read the book.

[bennyboy]

You think that the pc left and sjw's are most definitely attacking whites, somehow.  You even think that I'm being a terrible racist shitwad to you..somehow, lol.  There's no point in hedging that, watering it down, or walking it back.  I don't know what other people do, but I wonder why I would need to turn the tables on some losing argument in this thread.  Has there been a single point at which you haven't been utterly and inescapably wrong?  

The mandate of the PC Left is to protect some demographic groups from others. They've identified groups of victimhood, and those of oppressorship. I wouldn't even say that overall this isn't well-intended. But if you don't think that straight white rich Christian males aren't vilified as a group, then you might not think the sun is yellow, either.

As for points in which I "haven't been utterly and inescapably wrong," I'd say that 100% of my points meet that criterion. You, obviously, disagree. I think you are wrong to do so.

I'll point out again that the white victimization complex, and even more specifically the white victimization complex as it relates to lefist politics, political correctness, and social justice..... is the normalizing language of white supremacy.  It depends on people not realizing that the individual complaints are factually inaccurate, and even more importantly it depends on people not realizing that it's the normalizing language of white supremacy.  

Well, I've never claimed white victimhood. This is your straw man, and your attempt at guilt by association of ideas. I say anything that even remotely sounds like I'm both (a) white; and (b) discontent with any interactions with black people (or gay people or whatever), and you are perfectly satisfied to generalize that specific complaint to some sort of over-arching complex. But that is exactly the point, isn't it, that that's what the PC Left do?

Your  anxiety as regards what the pc left, sj, or any random "leftist extremist" is doing is deeply and plainly informed by that language, as is petersons, and is wholly wrong - as demonstrated by every single example in this thread.  People like Peterson provide intellectual cover through their irrelevant (and suspect) credentials..whereas folks like yourself provide emotional and social cover by earnest rejection of any suggestion that they might have inadvertently picked up this position.  Everyone, ofc..is just telling it like it is™.

This is all working as intended.

My anxiety is about the effect of irresponsible and bad workers doing damage to my business-- not because they are black, or gay, or left-wing, but because they are using their identity demographics as an excuse not to do what is right-- according to the terms of a contract which they've signed.

That you keep trying to make this about demographics is YOUR thing, not mine. The point of PC is this demographic view, and I have very consistently argued in favor of individual merit and responsibility as the metric that should matter.

[EgoDeath]

I'd have to disagree. Good posture is important in many ways. Not only is it just physically better for you, it is better for your state of mind according to a number of different studies. 

It's also good for self defense to avoid looking like a victim walking in rough areas.  Obviously it's important in a job interview to not slouch, same goes for being on a date.  This is just from my life experience, I haven't read the book.

Absolutely. Good posture is just a good thing to practice. It's not the most profound piece of advice ever uttered but it's still good advice in my opinion.

[Rev. Rye]

I don't know if I would call Jungian philosophy outdated, it's still very relevant in analytical psychology. Granted I have a very rudimentary understanding of psychology. I think Peterson's ideas on personal responsibility are a lot more straight-forward than most, "Stand up straight with your shoulders back... choose friends who want the best for you..." This in contrast with other self-help books that tout ideas like, "Follow your passion." All in all I could do without the mythology when it comes to Peterson's teachings, but I don't hate it either.

I don't really have strong feelings about the guy one way or the other. I wouldn't exactly call Peterson right-wing either. I don't think there's anything mind-blowing about the guy but I don't hate him either, as many seem to.

One thing's for sure, he's succeeded in getting people to talk about him. Can't hate the guy for that.

The thing about Jung is that the philosophy behind his psychology is so vague and impossible to test that, from a contemporary scientific perspective, it's kind of useless as psychology. I've taken several psych courses, and I can tell you firsthand that I've heard more from my creative writing teacher about Jung than the psychology teachers. Even Freud's theories were (at least on occasion) potentially falsifiable (there is, admittedly, some argument about that), even though most of the time, his theories don't hold up. Jung fails on even that front.

And on Jordan Peterson not being right-wing? Well, with his staunch opposition to referring to transpeople by their given pronouns (admittedly, understandable when one tries to figure out how to pronounce pronounds like "xir"), a very essentialist attitude towards gender, a strong belief in limiting sex to being within marriage, a big hard-on for religion as a controlling force (to the extent that he said one needs God to quit smoking, something he immediately back-tracked on when Matt Dillahunty pointed out how stupid that was, and turned into "well, having a religious experience on shrooms counts"), and an obsession with the excesses of Communism. Now, I have to admit, Trump's raised the bar pretty damn high (at least he's not as racist as an alarmingly high number of his fans are), but that still sounds pretty right wing to me.