Peterson's 12 Rules for Life v2.0-- actual book discussion

[Rev. Rye]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_i...ted_States

And are you telling me that even in Western Europe, things are even worse? Well, I can’t find a sort of database of racial inequality in places there, but there is the GINI coefficient, which calculates income disparity.  Note that the higher the coefficient (and the redder its place on the map), the worse it is. Let’s see how the US scores in comparison with other nations.

Wait, we've been talking about justice, which I took to refer to abstracts like freedom of speech and action. Are you defining it in economic terms? If so, given the context right now, you'd better show this chart next to racial diversity charts, or % of population that is newly immigrated.

The de jure sort you've been mentioning, we do have. However, there's a lot of things that are linked to de facto injustice that need fixing which you don't seem to acknowledge, and the fact remains that the issues of class, race, power, and privilege are inextricably bound (at least at this point.) I strongly suspect that new immigration doesn't matter as much as you think to the lobster heirarchies (or their real world equivalents). Case in point: many of my ancestors arrived in America before the civil war, but the vast majority of black people in America have ancestors who were taken there long before then (as well as enough Massa DNA to make up a white great-grandparent) and my family is better off than alarmingly high percent of black people. The appeals to a sort of natural aristocracy these lobster heirarchies you challenge seem to imply, that appear to coincide far more with race than they should, don't really apply to the real, human world.

[paulpablo]

If the privilege is the result of superior military force and resulting military actions that result in power then that's simply a power privilege.

While that was once the case, it certainly isn't so any more, unless you count our police as a military force.  It doesn't take a battalion of infantry to maintain privilege anymore than it takes an army of calorie burning racists.

It's not exclusively white or caused by having white skin.

The type of privilege being discussed by the term "white privilege" most certainly is, and demonstrably exists.  Until you can get past this anxious hurdle you will not be able to cogently comment on -that- privilege.  It is a bag of tangible assets, conferred by identification as white.

In the case that Jordan Peterson was talking about the woman listed being able to move house where she wants to as an example of a tangible asset confered by identification as being white.

This is false for the obvious reason that it isn't granted to white people and she didn't get that privilege by being white.

[The Grand Nudger]

While that was once the case, it certainly isn't so any more, unless you count our police as a military force.  It doesn't take a battalion of infantry to maintain privilege anymore than it takes an army of calorie burning racists.


The type of privilege being discussed by the term "white privilege" most certainly is, and demonstrably exists.  Until you can get past this anxious hurdle you will not be able to cogently comment on -that- privilege.  It is a bag of tangible assets, conferred by identification as white.

In the case that Jordan Peterson was talking about the woman listed being able to move house where she wants to as an example of a tangible asset confered by identification as being white.

There often is a component of white privilege in where we can live.  Assuming one has the economic means to overcome that, there remains a difference in how a person might be able to live there in the absence of that privilege.  

This is false for the obvious reason that it isn't granted to white people and she didn't get that privilege by being white.

You don't know what white privilege is, so how could you determine that something is true or false with respect to that privilege?  You seem to think that..even in this instance, the privilege being referred to is akin to someone being granted a house on the basis of their being white. The white version of 40acres and a mule, lol.

The white privilege being referred to, in this instance, comes in the form of a rent or loan application (or for that matter, the outright sale of a residence) for a specific property in a specific neighborhood having a greater or lesser chance of passing process due to the ethnicity (real or perceived) of the applicant. Of being seen to be "the right sort of person for our community". After that hurdle, white privilege comes in the form of fewer complaints, and less shade.

Amusingly, no one in this process need be overtly or even intentionally racist. Structural privileges transcend individual actors motivations.

[paulpablo]

In the case that Jordan Peterson was talking about the woman listed being able to move house where she wants to as an example of a tangible asset confered by identification as being white.

There often is a component of white privilege in where we can live.  Assuming one has the economic means to overcome that, there remains a difference in how a person might be able to live there in the absence of that privilege.  

This is false for the obvious reason that it isn't granted to white people and she didn't get that privilege by being white.

You don't know what white privilege is, so how could you determine that something is true or false?  You seem to think that..even in this instance, the privilege being referred to is akin to someone being granted a house on the basis of their being white. The white version of 40acres and a mule, lol.

I'm commenting on the same list Jordan Peterson is commenting on and the way it's presented.

If her list is what white privilege is then I'd simply suggest a name change more suitable, like "Jane Doe" privilege or whatever her name is.
Because it's her privilege and not a privilege for white people

[The Grand Nudger]

You'd suggest anything that scrubbed the existence of white privilege from it's implicitly racist underpinnings...so?  I'm sorry you didn't get your allotted 40acres and a mule, but since that's not what white privilege is, nor is it what is being referred to in that list..I don't know why it would be a comment on the reality of white privilege.  : shrugs :

[paulpablo]

You'd suggest anything that scrubbed the existence of white privilege from it's implicitly racist underpinnings...so?  I'm sorry you didn't get your allotted 40acres and a mule, but since that's not what white privilege is, nor is it what is being referred to in that list..I don't know why it would be a comment on the reality of white privilege.  : shrugs :

In that list it does say that an effect of white privilege is being able to afford to purchase property or rent property in a place of her choice.

As a privilege that stems from having money and living in a place she can blend in as a racial majority.

Majority and wealth privilege.

[The Grand Nudger]

You'd suggest anything that scrubbed the existence of white privilege from it's implicitly racist underpinnings...so?  I'm sorry you didn't get your allotted 40acres and a mule, but since that's not what white privilege is, nor is it what is being referred to in that list..I don't know why it would be a comment on the reality of white privilege.  : shrugs :

In that list it does say that an effect of white privilege is  being able to afford to purchase property or rent property in a place of her choice.

As a privilege that stems from having money and living in a place she can blend in as a racial majority.

Majority and wealth privilege.

Sure, and also white privilege.  Ask yourself this....what are her odds of getting into the local white gated community in a majority - minority area?

Better or worse than her economically equal minority?  Better or worse than her economically equal minority that "act's white"...and of the two minority applicants, which has the greater odds?

Why does the white girl start off with the best odds? Why does the minority that "acts white" run up, and why do both people enjoy a privileged transaction with respect to the third? What might a good name for a privilege conferred by being or acting white, be? Words are hard. Care to suggest an accurate term?

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Let me ask you a question, Pablo.  Why is it, do you think..we have anti-discrimination laws in place when it comes to housing and lending? More specifically, do you think that they owe their existence to our having sat down and engaged in a theoretical exercise? What might happen, what could, someday, happen? Or is it rather that we noticed significant discrimination and sought to penalize it? If the latter is the case..could you put a date on the day that this stopped happening?

[Rev. Rye]

Maybe if she can personally blend well with the social white majority, maybe even hold similarly reactionary views towards different minorities, and maybe have some white ancestry, they can get their space. Isn’t that right, half-Afro-Peruvian-half-German-American George Zimmerman?

The issues behind privilege are a lot more complicated than they look, but race remains a big part of it.

[paulpablo]

In that list it does say that an effect of white privilege is  being able to afford to purchase property or rent property in a place of her choice.

As a privilege that stems from having money and living in a place she can blend in as a racial majority.

Majority and wealth privilege.

Sure, and also white privilege.  Ask yourself this....what are her odds of getting into the local white gated community in a majority - minority area?

What is a majority minority area?

[The Grand Nudger]

@Rev
For sure.  White privilege, with respect to housing, often leads to self segregation or white flight. As examples.

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Sure, and also white privilege.  Ask yourself this....what are her odds of getting into the local white gated community in a majority - minority area?

What is a majority minority area?

What is words?  Stop, lol.