Posts: 4446
Threads: 87
Joined: December 2, 2009
Reputation:
47
conscription and selective service
November 20, 2018 at 12:05 am
What are the politco's sorry if it's the wrong sections) thoughts on forcing conscription of years with selective service of 2. I think in a cursory thought, we could provide less incentives reducing military spending and it would help societally in some aspects potentially?
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Posts: 67193
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: conscription and selective service
November 20, 2018 at 12:14 am
I'd go the other way with it. Let service confer benefits over and above the baseline...but allow that service to be civil or military.
As a former infantryman in a pretty rough span of time...I don't want any chance that the folks standing next to me aren't volunteers. Hell...I used to tell all the nastygirls (who signed up thinking they'd never be deployed) to stay in the fucking humvee. I value my life.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 30974
Threads: 204
Joined: July 19, 2011
Reputation:
141
RE: conscription and selective service
November 20, 2018 at 12:24 am
No for essentially the same reasons as above.
Posts: 15351
Threads: 118
Joined: January 13, 2014
Reputation:
117
RE: conscription and selective service
November 20, 2018 at 12:27 am
I'm with Belly Knife, civil service counts. While I was never in combat (technically in theater, but I don't count it) I never wanted anyone in my company/departments who didn't want to be there, and I know many, many Marines that I served with that would say the same thing as Gae.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: conscription and selective service
November 20, 2018 at 12:39 am
1. I doubt there would be much savings. Whatever they don't pay the soldiers would be pissed away on the military industrial complex in some other way. Cutting the military budget produces the most conspicuous whining and our politicians can't stand up to it.
2. While I see the benefit of an all-volunteer force it leads to two significant problems which cannot be fixed. First, the burden of military service falls on a disproportionately small percentage of the population. The rest of the population looks at them and says "you volunteered...don't complain." This leads to point #2. Conscription has the tendency of democratizing the armed forces. I wonder if we would still be pissing away our time and money in Afghanistan if the soldiers were draftees. Somehow, I think the political repercussions would have been too much.
Remember that the Romans went from a citizen army to a volunteer professional force. It didn't work out so well. In 30 years Sulla marched on Rome and "his" troops gleefully followed him.
Posts: 4446
Threads: 87
Joined: December 2, 2009
Reputation:
47
RE: conscription and selective service
November 20, 2018 at 12:40 am
I agree in general, but there were plenty of people in with me that were only there for the college and money who didn't have better options in RL. It might be that way in the near term but if we assume it was just the societal norm, are there no benefits?
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Posts: 67193
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: conscription and selective service
November 20, 2018 at 12:43 am
-three hots and a cot, man.
Otoh, we get the socialized medicine that would (apparently) wreck our country...if we can get scheduled in, obvs.
You served? What branch..mos?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 4446
Threads: 87
Joined: December 2, 2009
Reputation:
47
RE: conscription and selective service
November 20, 2018 at 12:49 am
(This post was last modified: November 20, 2018 at 12:50 am by tackattack.
Edit Reason: adding info
)
(November 20, 2018 at 12:39 am)Minimalist Wrote:
I agree that in some countries it breeds a thirst for war. And if the county if focused on expansion, full of infighting among the 1% and we kept a civil force to check the national force, I don't see that as being as problematic as Sulla.
I agree with your points on 2 and I have far more faith in the government than you to agree with 1, but that's for another thread.
So if you could trust that the people next to you wanted to be there because everyone does it (it's normalized societally) and it reduced spending would that be enough or do you think more benefit would be necessary?
edited: I was in the AF and contracting work still.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Posts: 67193
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: conscription and selective service
November 20, 2018 at 12:50 am
(This post was last modified: November 20, 2018 at 12:51 am by The Grand Nudger.)
"Everyone does it" isn't enough for me. "I chose to do it, so lets do it" is the only acceptable state of affairs when it's my ass on the line, or when the other guys ass is counting on me.
Army, MOUT. I did some contracting after I got out. Snatch and grab shit, you know the drill.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: conscription and selective service
November 20, 2018 at 12:51 am
That comes under 2.1 "They volunteered." Sure, they may have thought they were signing up for paint ball on the weekends but things do not always work out as planned, do they.
I do think that 2.1 and 2.2 cannot be reconciled.
|
