What do you think of LGBTQ2?

[EgoDeath]

All said and done, what the fuck do these abbreviations have to do with anything? Can we just toss aside all of this bullshit and treat one another with respect, regardless of sexuality and beliefs?

I've always said that I may respect you, but I do not have to respect your silly beliefs. Sexuality is another thing entirely as it is something you're born with that may be somewhat influenced by upbringing.

I can't get enough of these Identity Warrior Libtards fighting over an acronym. IWL forever, man!

It's bizarre. I'm a liberal Decomcart, for all intents and purposes, but I just hate how strange the far left has gotten. The far right is arguably much, much worse. Even when it comes to being an atheist though, which may be a somewhat important part of my identity, I don't feel that it's THAT important, because it's only PART of my identity. I've never even gotten that wrapped up in what my identity is though, to be honest. I'm just me. 

I've been treated differently for being an atheist; I don't get throw a fit over it though, I disregard that person as, most likely, an asshole because that's how they're acting, and move on with my life. Maybe I'm just too apathetic to be some kind of activist for any cause though. Who knows...?

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't know that the situations are so broadly similar as to provide a compelling analogy.  Our atheism has not amounted to the level of systemic disenfranchisement that those other identifiers have.  Atheism was not grounds for refusal of a marriage license.  Atheism was not grounds for potty laws.  People will always be assholes..but things like this go beyond being an asshole.  

It would make sense for you to find your atheism a far less profound part of who you are and your position in society than some lgbt people finding any of those things to be a profoundly consequential part of theirs (and hey, some do..some don't).  You can decide to move on with your life, for example..but how does one move on with their life when moving on includes a marriage that you cannot achieve?  The pressure that brought about change on that issue was only achieved by groups with aligned interests who could organize beneath an identifiable banner, just as our major parties provide that banner to their constituencies and pursue their interests.  

For better or for worse that's just how things work.  That's hardly bizarre...it's business as usual.  "Hi, we're xy and z..and we'd like to talk to you about....".

While it;s pretty much none of my business how you work out your relationship with your political party - it seems that you might want to consider the possibility that the idea that this is bizarre (and a whole range of other common tropes) are a product of a fifth column seemingly operating within that party -as- liberals..but espousing a decidedly conservative narrative. Delegitimizing the groups, their goals, and their motivations as "one of you".

[EgoDeath]

Atheists were persecuted and killed and labeled as heathens for thousands of years. Atheists still can't hold public office in some places. It's likely we'll never see an atheist POTUS in our lifetime; votes are far more likely to vote for a gay POTUS, according to polls. Gay people CAN legally get married. TF are you talking about?

I know plenty of atheists who DO treat their atheism as a huge part of their identity and use it to define their place in society. I also know more than a few gay/bisexual people who don't treat their sexuality as a huge part of their identity. It's a person-to-person thing. All I'm saying is I PERSONALLY don't get into all the acronyms and what not (not that I won't use them), what I do get into is respecting myself and those around me and the condescending attitudes some people having towards the LGBT community show that they have anything BUT respect for marginalized peoples, despite their lame attempts at morally grandstanding over those who don't tick all the boxes in the "left" column.

No one is "delegitimizing" gay, bi or trans people. And even if I was espousing a "conservative view," which I don't think I am, what's the issue with that? What is with this "all or nothing" attitude people have about politics nowadays? From past experience with you, I have zero interest in getting into a ten-page pissing match with you, but what you're saying is nonsense.

I treat everyone with respect, regardless of sexuality or belief.

[The Grand Nudger]

Atheists were persecuted and killed and labeled as heathens for thousands of years. Atheists still can't hold public office in some places. It's likely we'll never see an atheist POTUS in our lifetime; votes are far more likely to vote for a gay POTUS, according to polls. Gay people CAN legally get married. TF are you talking about?

Voters would probably vote for a guy in the taliban rather than an atheist, lol..but there's no law stating that atheists -can't- be president.

Yes, prj..gay people -can- get married...now.  The mobilization and organization of lgbt groups made that happen.  

I know plenty of atheists who DO treat their atheism as a huge part of their identity and use it to define their place in society. I also know more than a few gay/bisexual people who don't treat their sexuality as a huge part of their identity. It's a person-to-person thing. All I'm saying is I PERSONALLY don't get into all the acronyms and what not (not that I won't use them), what I do get into is respecting myself and those around me and the condescending attitudes some people having towards the LGBT community show that they have anything BUT respect for marginalized peoples.

No one is "delegitimizing" gay, bi or trans people. And even if I was espousing a "conservative view," which I don't think I am, what's the issue with that? What is with this "all or nothing" attitude people have about politics nowadays? From past experience with you, I have zero interest in getting into a ten-page pissing match with you, but what you're saying is nonsense.

OFC the groups are being delegitimized.  The comment you just made was explicitly delegitimizing.  You don't know wtf this bizarreness is all about, you just get on with your life.  I appreciate that you might not see that. I;ve been watching this little sabotage play out as an observer for the last few years. Dems have very competently been made to eat their own.

I treat everyone with respect, regardless of sexuality or belief.

That's great, not everyone does..and more to the point..some groups find themselves under more than just street level asshattery - but systemic disenfranchisement. That, in that situation, they rallied around a header and with each other to effect change was great. Atheists should probably try it out, but we're pretty much a herd of cats so I don't think it'll materialize anytime soon.

[EgoDeath]

Atheists were persecuted and killed and labeled as heathens for thousands of years. Atheists still can't hold public office in some places. It's likely we'll never see an atheist POTUS in our lifetime; votes are far more likely to vote for a gay POTUS, according to polls. Gay people CAN legally get married. TF are you talking about?

Voters would probably vote for a guy in the taliban rather than an atheist, lol..but there's no law stating that atheists -can't- be president.  

Yes, prj..gay people -can- get married...now.  The mobilization and organization of lgbt groups made that happen.  

Correct. Point being...?

I know plenty of atheists who DO treat their atheism as a huge part of their identity and use it to define their place in society. I also know more than a few gay/bisexual people who don't treat their sexuality as a huge part of their identity. It's a person-to-person thing. All I'm saying is I PERSONALLY don't get into all the acronyms and what not (not that I won't use them), what I do get into is respecting myself and those around me and the condescending attitudes some people having towards the LGBT community show that they have anything BUT respect for marginalized peoples.

No one is "delegitimizing" gay, bi or trans people. And even if I was espousing a "conservative view," which I don't think I am, what's the issue with that? What is with this "all or nothing" attitude people have about politics nowadays? From past experience with you, I have zero interest in getting into a ten-page pissing match with you, but what you're saying is nonsense.

OFC the groups are being delegitimized.  The comment you just made was explicitly delegitimizing.  You don't know wtf this bizarreness is all about, you just get on with your life.  I appreciate that you might not see that.  I;ve been watching this little sabotage play out as an observer for the last few years.  Dems have very competently been made to eat their own.  

Bolded by me. No, it wasn't, but okay. I've marched in my city's Pride parade with gay/bi friends of mine, the fuck do you know about what I do and don't see? This moral grandstanding needs to stop.

"Yea, you respect gays but you don't respect them enough, because if you did you'd think how I think! You don't see what I see!"



Gtfoh dude.

I treat everyone with respect, regardless of sexuality or belief.

That's great, not everyone does..and more to the point..some groups find themselves under more than just street level asshattery - but systemic disenfranchisement.  That, in that situation, they rallied around a header and with each other to effect change was great.  Atheists should probably try it out, but we're pretty much a herd of cats so I don't think it'll materialize anytime soon.

So first, you start arguing that atheists are not marginalized enough to be compared with gay people, then you turn around and say we should take a page out of their book and rally just like they do?

Jesus christ man. This is why I don't interact with you, you are insanely disingenuous and love getting into these little pissing contests.

I'm out. Enjoy the last word, because you're probably right. You're ALWAYS right, khemikal.

[The Grand Nudger]

Voters would probably vote for a guy in the taliban rather than an atheist, lol..but there's no law stating that atheists -can't- be president.  

Yes, prj..gay people -can- get married...now.  The mobilization and organization of lgbt groups made that happen.  

Correct. Point being...?

The point has already been made.  I can see why your atheism would be less profound a part of your identity than someone else's homosexuality would be of theirs.  

I know plenty of atheists who DO treat their atheism as a huge part of their identity and use it to define their place in society. I also know more than a few gay/bisexual people who don't treat their sexuality as a huge part of their identity. It's a person-to-person thing. All I'm saying is I PERSONALLY don't get into all the acronyms and what not (not that I won't use them), what I do get into is respecting myself and those around me and the condescending attitudes some people having towards the LGBT community show that they have anything BUT respect for marginalized peoples.

No one is "delegitimizing" gay, bi or trans people. And even if I was espousing a "conservative view," which I don't think I am, what's the issue with that? What is with this "all or nothing" attitude people have about politics nowadays? From past experience with you, I have zero interest in getting into a ten-page pissing match with you, but what you're saying is nonsense.

OFC the groups are being delegitimized.  The comment you just made was explicitly delegitimizing.  You don't know wtf this bizarreness is all about, you just get on with your life.  I appreciate that you might not see that.  I;ve been watching this little sabotage play out as an observer for the last few years.  Dems have very competently been made to eat their own.  

Bolded by me. No, it wasn't, but okay. I've marched in my city's Pride parade with gay/bi friends of mine, the fuck do you know about what I do and don't see? This moral grandstanding needs to stop.

"Yea, you respect gays but you don't respect them enough, because if you did you'd think how I think! You don't see what I see!"



Gtfoh dude.

I don't know what your specific level of respect is or how much respect is enough respect..(?)..but whatever the level of that respect and however much respect is enough respect the nature of those comments doesn't change.  They're explicitly delegimitizing, though I'm perfectly willing to accept that you didn't mean for them to be or realize that they were.

There's a hell of alot of that going round..and a hell of alot of it coming out the atheist and skeptic communities (as batshit christers have been complaining about for some time now..but..being batshit christers they get rightfully ignored, lol)

I treat everyone with respect, regardless of sexuality or belief.

That's great, not everyone does..and more to the point..some groups find themselves under more than just street level asshattery - but systemic disenfranchisement.  That, in that situation, they rallied around a header and with each other to effect change was great.  Atheists should probably try it out, but we're pretty much a herd of cats so I don't think it'll materialize anytime soon.

So first, you start arguing that atheists are not marginalized enough to be compared with gay people, then you turn around and say we should take a page out of their book and rally just like they do?

I argued..specifically..that the two situations were not alike enough for your atheism and how it impacts you to be a fruitful indicator of someones homosexuality and how it impacts them.  That it was not even remotely bizarre that one group might attach a greater importance than the other. I get that, I get that you just get on with your life.  You can do that.  For those that literally couldn't..this wasn't an option.  That's why the groups came to be, that's why the labels exist. This seems..to me, to be a simple piece of mundane trivia.

Jesus christ man. This is why I don't interact with you, you are insanely disingenuous and love getting into these little pissing contests.

I'm out. Enjoy the last word, because you're probably right. You're ALWAYS right, khemikal.  

I pick my battles..what can I say? 

[Lek]

These are the kind of stupid problems you run into when everybody has to have a label.  Everybody wants to be identify as part of some group rather than as themselves.  Maybe it's because we don't even know who we are as individuals anymore.  I read that in some schools you must address others according to the pronouns they have given themselves.  The problems is, the pronouns are not all either "he" or "she".  We've lost it folks!

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes, we've lost it, because some people have more than two pronouns.  Christ all-fucking mighty! 

[Agnostico]

Let's simplify.
How about we just call everybody by the name on their driver's license, and quit worrying about what goes on in their bedroom???
And if they dress funny, we give them a little shit, buy them a beer - and just get on with business.....

True