Libertarian left and right

[Mister Agenda]

You're making me hungry.

I consider myself a 'liberaltarian', left libertarian has a lot of specific conotations. My position is more like 'Freedom Democrat' in a state without any of those actually running or in office. Or maybe classic liberal: socially liberal, fiscally responsible. I would not cut social programs and would be willing to spend more in this area if it was on programs aimed at helping people get into a better situation and requiring them to prove their effectiveness in doing so. My hope is to shrink traditional programs naturally by reducing the need for them. I think corporations may have too much protection from liability. I think war should be a last resort, and only when it is clearly to protect our immediate interests.

Some of the things that originally attracted me to the Libertarian Party have changed, it's effectively become neutral on the issue of immigration for instance, and it was strongly pro-immigration when I first learned about it. There are a lot of members who really belong in the Constitution Party, at the risk of making a 'no true Libertarian' argument.

Internally, I think the LP suffers from having a lot of borderline-Aspergers types who tend to forget the importance of civil liberties in their focus on 'just-right' free market economic theories. I think Canada is a good example of a country which, if you place equal importance on civil liberties, is more libertarian than the USA, since it's adoption of effective spending control measures.

[Ashendant]

Anyway... my choices aren't represented on charts like the one revvie presented

So you're a

Psychotic Dictatorship (Liberal: Fascist Dictatorship) (Conservative: Communist Dictatorship)

[The Grand Nudger]

Thought socialized medicine pretty much skyrocketed you out of the libertarian camp.

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

you are pretty much correct with right libertarians, although some may have no problem with firemen and such. It just depends on how far right into the corner they are. some may claim that firemen should be privatised, and then charge you as soon as they put your fire out.

Wasn't there a story some time ago about something that happened in Kentucky where the firemen were privatized?
As I recall, they allowed someone's house to burn down because the man wasn't on the up and up with his dues.

I digress...

The libertarian left, on the other hand, especially where I am at on the compass, dont trust police officials of ANY type. Even their unions (if you can call them that) vote for people in the top right bracket of the compass. Firemen are fine as well as ambulance emergency workers. Healthcare shold be absolutely free, equal, and with all options intact (such as abortion, willing euthanasia, etc.) Insurance companies are one of the big enemies, as they influence the government to take societies freedoms away while they find ways to profit on peoples misery and suffering. Standing millitary is distasteful, and millitary should only be used to fight back an invasion only, and no more. Left Libertarians are for open borders with no nationalism, instead of being a "country", they are a community of humans regardless of race, religion, birthplace, etc.. In fact nationalism is distasteful to left libs, as they see it as a precursor to minorities getting ready to get screwed. Money is dispised by left libs as the big cause of the problems we face today, and it cheapens human worth and labor. government should only be the occasional meeting of labor trades to discuss minimal directions for progress and then disbanded. No one is rich, no one is poor, everyone shares in the local commodities for better or for worse. Banks are shut down. Money changers and stock markets are ran off for cheapening and leeching off of the labor of the masses. It is a commune of sorts, but not the "communism" of Stalin. Stalin was VERY authoritarian. Left libertarians distrust political and economic power, and therefore try to remove them from society as much as possible. Drugs are completely legalized, as well as adult concensual sex and pornography. Guns are completely legalized regardless of automatic or not, but are usually frowned upon. Censorship does not exist, education is a top priority as well as skilled craftmanship and creativity. All people take their equal share of the pie. Retirement and health are guarenteed for life no questions asked.

Thats left libertarian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism

The term "communist" might be distasteful for the 'left libertarians" but that sounds to be essentially what it is.
Although the term tends to be affiliated with authoritarianism, a 'left libertarian paradise' would seem to be something along the lines of a community that has all but completely eliminated money and government, outside of a few necessary functions and everything done is done for the community at large.

There are many societies like this and many more that have come and gone - this sounds awfully similar to the sort of society many native american and african tribes currently and formerly had. Some of which were only introduced to the concept of property and currency when white people and spanish conquistadors showed up.

This doesn't sound like the ideal society to me, however, as much of the progress humanity has made philisophically, technologically, and so forth are a direct or indirect result of many of the things a "Left Libertarian" society would eliminate. It also seems incompatible with large and very large populatoins that are literally dependant upon large-scale organisation brought about by powerful governments and corperations.

We grow tired of being called communists, marxists, or Stalinist. We do not support state socialism (thats the top left of the compass), nor do we support capitalism. we support open ended and non-authoritarian co-operative economic systems.

That is a communist society or at least a form of communist society. It just isn't a 'government controls everything' communist society (which is technically a dictatorship anyway).

I could have my definitions crossed somewhere though, but I understand where you're coming from.

[reverendjeremiah]

Thought socialized medicine pretty much skyrocketed you out of the libertarian camp.

Only Libertarian right. Libertarian left calls for the socialization of many things, since they advocate the abolition of wage.

[Mister Agenda]

Thought socialized medicine pretty much skyrocketed you out of the libertarian camp.

But that doesn't make sense, does it? I mean, not thinking it's the best way to do things seems to come with the territory of the LP version of libertarianism, but it shouldn't be a litmus test, and it shouldn't keep a country from being considered more libertarian on balance than a country that doesn't have socialized medicine but has other infringements on liberty.

[Violet]

Anyway... my choices aren't represented on charts like the one revvie presented

So you're a

Psychotic Dictatorship (Liberal: Fascist Dictatorship) (Conservative: Communist Dictatorship)

No.... and why would you infer that from what I said...? 0.o

[5thHorseman]

If I'm interpreting this correctly, left and right libertarianism would work if greed was not a problem.?

[Jackalope]

If I'm interpreting this correctly, left and right libertarianism would work if greed was not a problem.?

It seems to me that greed and lust for power are two of the fatal flaws to any political ideology.

[reverendjeremiah]

If I'm interpreting this correctly, left and right libertarianism would work if greed was not a problem.?

Left Libertarianism, otherwise known as anarchism, or anarcho-syndicalism, believe that the removal of wage and profit systems will greatly reduce greed and crime. they believe that the capitalist system is, at its root, the glorification and enabling of human greed.

Right libertarians, who also can go under the banner of anarcho capitalists, wish to remove the state and replace it with the purist form of capitalism. Of course many of them disagree over what its "pure form" is (see: austrian and chicago school of economics). right libertarians are all about individualism, but through capitalistic economics.

Some say that greed is human nature. And to a point I do agree. i also say that without capitalism greed would be a very small factor. Why steal in a community that makes everything available for free? Why worry about your employment in an economy that has removed things like inflation and trumped up "supply and demand" economics for the sole benefit of the few?

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The term "communist" might be distasteful for the 'left libertarians" but that sounds to be essentially what it is.
Although the term tends to be affiliated with authoritarianism, a 'left libertarian paradise' would seem to be something along the lines of a community that has all but completely eliminated money and government, outside of a few necessary functions and everything done is done for the community at large.

Yes it is, seeing that historically communists have opposed us 100%. Communism is authoritarian. They FORCE you into the commune. Syndicalists (left libs) create co-opts. Communists consider free speach, in the words of Lenin, to be a "bourgeois superstition". Syndicalists consider free speech to be the most important factor of humanity. Communists create a state wide commune. Syndicalists oppose such concepts as "the state", and they oppose any type of "authority".

There are many societies like this and many more that have come and gone - this sounds awfully similar to the sort of society many native american and african tribes currently and formerly had. Some of which were only introduced to the concept of property and currency when white people and spanish conquistadors showed up.

This is very true. We allow people to live their dreams within the community. We see humanity as a collective of creative individual workers who should put the concepts of brotherhood/sisterhood first when dealing with their neighbors. In other words, you are very much an individual, but that does not excuse you from stepping on others to empower yourself.

This doesn't sound like the ideal society to me, however, as much of the progress humanity has made philisophically, technologically, and so forth are a direct or indirect result of many of the things a "Left Libertarian" society would eliminate. It also seems incompatible with large and very large populatoins that are literally dependant upon large-scale organisation brought about by powerful governments and corperations.

Although syndicalism is an Ideal, and even considered an "Idealism", in no way do its adherents consider it a "Utopia". It will have its problems, and it does. In no way would a left libertarian society eliminate technology, philosophy, or other such things. Syndicalism, as i have said before, is a co-opt of individuals with no state authority above them. This means, if anything, that individual freedom and creativity will be enhanced... not eliminated. Syndicalism has been implemented in many different time frames and many different countries, most especially in Spain:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederaci...el_Trabajo
But what you suggest can also be applied to most other forms of govt. You may as well say that democracy is incompatable with a large amount of people, as there will be no way that everyones voice or vote will be met.