Is there free will in heaven?

[ElDinero]

All he is concerned about is if he can get down, what I'm trying to clarify is that heaven will not be established on those terms.

*sigh* Could you not see I was using that as an example to disprove your free will idea? No, sex isn't the be all and end all of my life. I wanted to use something that wouldn't be allowed in heaven, because then it could easily be demonstrated that free will does not exist in heaven, it's a paradox.

But since you don't even understand the concept of what free will means, it's more or less like trying to knock down a wall with a pea shooter. Perhaps you should go and read what it means first?

[The Grand Nudger]

Look at em all hot with christfire. No reasonable discussion contains within it a parade if absurdities presented as fact from one adult to another. The conversation you're having is exactly equivalent to a conversation about the average leprechauns taste for barbecued unicorn. At what point would that notion (and those who hold it) deserve respect? That you back this whole sad bit up with appeals to absolute cosmic facism, or by dodging uncomfortable shit that follows as a result of your delusions leaves me less inclined to show any of you any respect with every post. Complain all you like that you're not getting a fair shake. You are, you've blown it.

Before any of you have any right to complain whatsoever I want you up and defending the next muslim who comes in here and gets his little fairy tale shit on with all of your might.

[reverendjeremiah]

It's entirely possible to have intellectually rewarding conversations about God free from acrimony. I know, because I've had them. There are thoughtful atheists out there who are willing to engage and have a reasoned debate that actually gets farther than "god is a fairytale and youre a moron". I don't know particularly what is poisoning the atmosphere here, but from I have gathered it is a selective enforcement of the rules. The reasoning I have heard is..theists mistreat atheists in their forums, therefore, we get to mistreat theists here. Well, even if that were universally true, which I know it isn't, it certainly doesn't speak to the claim that atheism is in any wise superior to theism. Rather, it shows it is petty and vindictive.

Then leave. None of us are keeping you here. If you dont like the atmosphere around here, then goodbye.

Also, if you expect us to respect delusional rantings, then you should leave. This forum is one of the most laid back and inviting atheist forum on the net when it comes to theism.

So, if you think we are petty and vindictive to you, then leave.

[Shell B]

I find it amusing that you as atheists can't see your hypocracy here. Yes we know this is an atheist forum and what goes here is atheist asshattery is overlooked and then called "reasonable discourse". I think y'all need to take a look in the mirror sometimes.

Darling, spell hypocrisy correctly and I will take you more seriously.

Salty, while I will not say you are going without being insulted, I will say that you are inflating it and putting on the righteous defense face. This, coming from the woman who derailed a thread by sending veiled threats to alei, correct? You are the first person in this forum that I have ever had to give a verbal warning regarding physical threats to. Think about it before you continue with your charade.

That being said, get this long-winded thread back on topic you bunch of meatballs. ElD, you may look edible in a suit, but stop baiting Salty into saying you are going to hell. If you bait her, I will not warn her.

[reverendjeremiah]

I find it amusing that you as atheists can't see your hypocracy here. Yes we know this is an atheist forum and what goes here is atheist asshattery is overlooked and then called "reasonable discourse". I think y'all need to take a look in the mirror sometimes.

Darling, spell hypocrisy correctly and I will take you more seriously.

Salty, while I will not say you are going without being insulted, I will say that you are inflating it and putting on the righteous defense face. This, coming from the woman who derailed a thread by sending veiled threats to alei, correct? You are the first person in this forum that I have ever had to give a verbal warning regarding physical threats to. Think about it before you continue with your charade.

That being said, get this long-winded thread back on topic you bunch of meatballs. ElD, you may look edible in a suit, but stop baiting Salty into saying you are going to hell. If you bait here, I will not warn her.

It was on thread and topic, that is, until the losers started trying to use their childish "Im being persecuted because you dont agree with me" tactics.

Now.. I would like for people to prove that freewill even exists.

[Shell B]

I do realize it was on topic until the pity party started. I'm declaring the pity party over. This thread is already too long.

[reverendjeremiah]

I do realize it was on topic until the pity party started. I'm declaring the pity party over. This thread is already too long.

Then it is official



thanks shell!

Now!!!!

I would like for freewill to be proven that it actually exists before we go one further inch on the whole "does freewill exist in heaven" topic.

[Shell B]

Free will does exist. All of the options that are open to me in my life can be chosen. Some of them are stupid and/or punishable, but I can still choose them, if I so wish.

[reverendjeremiah]

Shell, its not that simple.

We have people discussing all the ins and outs of freewill right now, and most come to different conclusions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will

Physicist Stephen Hawking describes such ideas in his 2010 book The Grand Design. Furthermore, according to Hawking, these findings from quantum mechanics suggest that humans are sorts of complicated biological machines; although our behavior is impossible to predict perfectly in practice, "free will is just an illusion."[48] In other words, he thinks that only compatibilistic (deterministic) free will is possible based on the data

I am nowhere NEAR the mind of Hawking, and he says freewill is an illusion

In other words; We have no idea if freewill exists or not

[Shell B]

Shell, its not that simple.

It is that simple. Freewill is a matter of being free to make any choice or decision that presents itself to you. Complicating it doesn't make it complicated.

We have people discussing all the ins and outs of freewill right now, and most come to different conclusions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will

Physicist Stephen Hawking describes such ideas in his 2010 book The Grand Design. Furthermore, according to Hawking, these findings from quantum mechanics suggest that humans are sorts of complicated biological machines; although our behavior is impossible to predict perfectly in practice, "free will is just an illusion."[48] In other words, he thinks that only compatibilistic (deterministic) free will is possible based on the data

I am nowhere NEAR the mind of Hawking, and he says freewill is an illusion

In other words; We have no idea if freewill exists or not

Meh. Just because he is a genius does not mean he is right about everything. Sometimes, overanalyzing a thing takes away from its meaning, rather than adding to it.