Question about "faith"

[John 6IX Breezy]

All I hear is a man telling me how tiny his faith is, John.

I'm not responsible for what you hear, only for what I say. And what I've said has been substantiated with Scripture and other references: Faith is trust in God.

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't think that the faith magic book is talking about is trust - in fact I'm certain that it's something I don't do at all, and I do trust. Surprise surprise, an atheist doesn't have the faith magic book describes.

It's certainly nothing quite so mundane to most of the worlds christians or religious people of any other stripe - but you do you. You could always just google this stuff yourself, and, if your faith is a cognitive proposition, as you say it is, when you find out how hilariously you've been fucking this one up..your faith will change, right?

There's irony in an atheist describing a faith that others possess, which you don't - the deep and abiding kind described in your own magic book, and you thinking.."Nah, pass, it's about this tiny little thing here". Do you think it would be fair to conclude that, for you, arguing with atheists and being right is more important than achieving that kind of faith? Do you think that you could achieve either goal this way? You say your faith is trust, fine. Trust is also a feeling. How long do we plan to swirl this drain?

[John 6IX Breezy]

Trust is trust irrespective of the subject, and the reasons, of your trust.

[The Grand Nudger]

Because we word however we want about anything, in service of arguing that our faith is small. I know..know...

But here we are. Your faith is trust. Trust is a feeling. Proceed.

[Sal]

Well, it has come full circle. Again.

Child indoctrination IS child abuse.

The amount of mental anguish that takes to test faith and accept its failure to prove anything is a testament to its hold on minds, most of who are unable to shed it.

[The Grand Nudger]

You're looking at it like something that can be false. Testing a thing that can't be true or false on grounds of it's being true or false isn't sensible. Faith doesn't have a hold on us, we have a hold on faith. It's not miasma, floating around up there doing things to us, it's something that we're doing. Nobody who has that feeling wants to give it up - and why would they?

[John 6IX Breezy]

Trust is not a feeling. Whatever you might feel as a result of trusting in someone is dissociated from the act of trusting.

[The Grand Nudger]

Careful, you don't want to make the word that you're pinning faith to an empty set. Or, at least, you wouldn't....if your faith was a cognitive proposition. You see, if trust were an empty set, and faith were trust, your faith is as empty as I keep suggesting.

You should work on that.

[Sal]

You're right. It isn't sensible.

[The Grand Nudger]

LOL< right? That's where people go wrong when they get frustrated by this stuff, in my experience. They think that they're dealing with the kind of proposition that we all experience about everything in our day to day lives...and sometimes, performative christians with little to no faith in mere reality assure us that this is so for reasons that could probably only be understood by them.

Once you realize that they're not, that this isn't that kind of situation, and if you have a christian with so much as the most rudimentary ability for introspection rather than the dogmatic recital of terms of art, you can learn all kinds of cool shit about faith and how it plays out for people. It's not an argument over any piece of trivia, which is why arguments over the facts of such matters don't touch faith.