Question about "faith"

[John 6IX Breezy]

Trust is trust in everyday matters, as it is in spiritual matters, as it is in imaginary matters, or any other context. This isn't complicated.

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't do to my wife what you do to your christ. I would assume the reverse is also true, lol. You're right..it's not complicated, and a clear and accurate understanding of the difference between terms doesn't jeopardize your faith in any way.

[Sal]

The REASON I think faith isn't sensible is on the same tier as you seem to hold (although I think I have a different perspective, IDK for sure), which is the complete inability to apply any test for faith.

Analogically, it's a pointless and frustrating attempt to trying to use a screwdriver to screw in a nail, while being either unaware or ignoring hammers.

[Abaddon_ire]

Trust is trust in everyday matters, as it is in spiritual matters, as it is in imaginary matters, or any other context. This isn't complicated.

Do tell. Exactly how many wives/husbands have had faith in their partner only to be devastated when that faith turns out to be ill founded?

[John 6IX Breezy]

The REASON I think faith isn't sensible is on the same tier as you seem to hold (although I think I have a different perspective, IDK for sure), which is the complete inability to apply any test for faith.

I agree and disagree.

I agree because trust by it's very nature rests upon varying degrees of uncertainty. For trust to occur there must be something that's unknown to you but known to someone else, etc. There may be no direct test for faith/trust, but faith/trust should always be built on some reason or merit. Christians often distinguish faith from presumption. Faith is virtuous, presumption is not.

But I disagree that faith can't be tested, in the sense that faith/trust are often about something that can eventually be known. If your friend says to wait outside the mall and he'll pick you up at 6pm. You are exhibiting faith/trust by waiting outside. There is no test to know whether your faith will payoff, only the merit of your friend's word. That being said, the clock will eventually hit 6pm, and you'll know whether or not faith paid off.

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To use a biblical analogy consider: "By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family." (Hebrews 11:7)

1. Note that in this story God spoke to Noah directly about the flood. This shows that faith has nothing to do with believing God exists. God is real in the story. Noah has a conversation with him.

2. Noah exercises faith by trusting the reliability of God's warning and building the ark. This is the uncertainty factor that defines trust. He built the ark before any sign of rain, as he must, if you wait till the flood comes to build the ark you're dead.

3. Notice that eventually it either rains or it doesn't. Faith is not indefinite and open-ended. It culminates in some conclusion that tells you whether or not your faith was accurate. You get your test results.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sounds like a blind and obedient faith to me. As you said, never seen a drop of rain. If my wife demanded that I build a big boat because the world was going to be flooded, I trust my wife, but I wouldn't breakout the strongback and steamer.

How about you? Is that what you would do, if your wife who you also trust, started babbling about a flood?

[John 6IX Breezy]

I would trust a surgeon with a surgery, a dentist with a cavity, and God about a supernatural flood.

I wouldnt trust a surgeon with my haircut, a dentist flying my plane, or my wife about a supernatural flood.

But if a surgeon showed me his cosmetology degree, a dentist showed me his pilot license, and my wife turned a rod into a serpent like Moses. I would be more inclined to trust them in those areas.

That is the nature of faith/trust. It is based on the merit of the proposer.

[Fake Messiah]

But if a surgeon showed me his cosmetology degree, a dentist showed me his pilot license, and my wife turned a rod into a serpent like Moses. I would be more inclined to trust them in those areas.

That is the nature of faith/trust. It is based on the merit of the proposer.

Dude, just the opposite. You just said that you would trust someone to fly you if they had a pilot license - which is evidence that they can operate an aircraft - and therefore you have a trust in that person - because of evidence.

Now, when someone believes that Dalai Lama reincarnates or that Joseph Smith is the last prophet they do it without any evidence and that's called faith.

If there was any evidence that Dalai Lama reincarnates or that Joseph Smith is the last prophet then people would not need faith in these stuff.

[John 6IX Breezy]

That's called faith by who? Can you find me a quote, not a personal anecdote, so we can be on the same page?

As far as the Bible goes, almost every story where God sends someone to speak to others, there is some supernatural sign given as evidence. Moses turns a rod into a serpent, Elijah rains fire from heaven, Jesus does countless miracles. You have to know God is real before you have faith in him.

[Sal]

Pretty sure you have that backwards.