Posts: 67295
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Separation of Science and State
November 16, 2020 at 5:03 am
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2020 at 5:05 am by The Grand Nudger.)
There are outliers, as described...but yeah, sure, why not?
Run with it, two. We'll use two for a religion as well if you like. It honestly makes no difference as to what a religion is.
One guy is just a nut with ideas, right? 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1713
Threads: 16
Joined: August 2, 2019
Reputation:
6
RE: Separation of Science and State
November 16, 2020 at 5:19 am
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2020 at 5:23 am by John 6IX Breezy.)
You've noticed the problem then: you can't have a single-person religion but not a single-person government.
I agree a person can govern themselves (verb) but can a single person be a government (noun)?
In terms of basic English it's coherent to say that Christianity will exist as long as there is a Christian to practice it. But it doesn't make sense to say a Church exists with only one individual. But given that your definition differs, and a church is a religion, you have two options: Either governments and religions require at minimum one person to exist, or two.
Posts: 67295
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Separation of Science and State
November 16, 2020 at 5:24 am
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2020 at 5:27 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Again, you can, and you can have a no person religion, too - we're just running with it to see where it goes.
Jesus was the only christian at some point, in your estimation. A description of his beliefs and practices relative to the sacred which..in that case could unite all who adhere to them in a moral whole would be his one man religion. He would be his one man church. Still, I see no specific problem with requiring a guy who comes up with it (or has it revealed to him) and at least one other guy.
The religion of those two would be whatever set of beliefs and practices relative to the sacred united them in a moral whole, and they would be a church of two.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1713
Threads: 16
Joined: August 2, 2019
Reputation:
6
RE: Separation of Science and State
November 16, 2020 at 5:29 am
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2020 at 5:38 am by John 6IX Breezy.)
A religion can exist with one person, but not a church. A church is by all conventions a group of individuals much like governments are. Durkheim was a sociologist, not a psychologist. His theories and ideas primarily address groups of people, not individuals, do they not?
Jesus himself talked about where "two or more are gathered" in reference to the church. One man churches do not exist in Christianity; a community is required.
Posts: 67295
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Separation of Science and State
November 16, 2020 at 5:37 am
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2020 at 5:39 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Like I said, set your minimum at two if you like. A dead religion has no members, but it's still a religion. It had a church.
-obviously, as durkheim describes it.
Big, small, doesn't matter. The definition fits schismatic religions, stable religions, small religions, big religions, dead religions, living religions. It uses the same metrics at any level of magnification. It's awfully handy, huh? I'm wondering when we're going to get to the money shot where you realize that there isn't anything wrong with durkheims definition of a religion or of a church.
Where you realize that you agree with it in every particular, and never needed argue with me, or pretend that you were dense, on account of it.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1713
Threads: 16
Joined: August 2, 2019
Reputation:
6
RE: Separation of Science and State
November 16, 2020 at 5:41 am
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2020 at 5:44 am by John 6IX Breezy.)
By convention I can be a Christian at home by myself, but I have to interact with others to be in a Church. That means the minimum for a religion is one but for a church it's two.
Posts: 67295
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Separation of Science and State
November 16, 2020 at 5:44 am
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2020 at 5:48 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Durkheim is not referring to a place or a group of people in a place as a church. You could be spread all over the world with no contact with each other, and you would still be the the church of whatever religion you shared.
You can be the only christian in town, and still be a christian. There was a first christian in every town there are any christians. Interacting with other christians is not required to be a member of a church. Holding a set of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things which unite all who adhere to them in a moral whole - having a religion...is.
Your cult could be scattered to the four winds by authorities and you would still have your religion, still be a member of that church.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1713
Threads: 16
Joined: August 2, 2019
Reputation:
6
RE: Separation of Science and State
November 16, 2020 at 5:47 am
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2020 at 5:47 am by John 6IX Breezy.)
They key words in my post were by myself and with others. Location does not matter.
Posts: 67295
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Separation of Science and State
November 16, 2020 at 5:50 am
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2020 at 5:59 am by The Grand Nudger.)
By yourself or with others, if you hold to a set of beliefs and practices which unite all who adhere to them in a moral whole, you are the church of that thing, and we call that thing a religion.
It doesn't matter. Absofucking-lutely does not matter. Are you stuck on 1's and 2's....?
Let's see if you can get this right through evangelism!
Think of some assertion of belief or practice about the sacred, that, if I adhered to it...would unite me in a moral whole with you. Doesn't have to be true (so you won't be required to argue or demonstrate that it is), I don't have to adhere to it (it would be categorically impossible for me to do so - so I don't have to bother arguing that it isn't and you won't have to listen to that),
......just something that, if I did, I would.
That, is a religion. That is all that durkheim is saying - it's not about the numbers. 1, 10, 100, 1 billion. It' not the clowns nose - and no one is being pushed out of the religion line on account of current subscribers.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1713
Threads: 16
Joined: August 2, 2019
Reputation:
6
RE: Separation of Science and State
November 16, 2020 at 5:59 am
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2020 at 6:06 am by John 6IX Breezy.)
The term Church, which Durkheim appropriated, refers to a group in Christianity. You cannot use words like unite and insist it's just one person.
|
