Hey Portland - you might get what you deserve.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Wow!  What a derail.

We didn't even resolve the vast numbers of trans women trolling for kids in spas and what to do about it.

And Mike Tyson is still up for debate as a prison cellmate.

Baffle 'em with bullshit...

When that's all you have, baffle 'em...you IA, certainly don't have brilliance to dazzle us with.

Pretty much 

[Irreligious Atheist]

He didn't tell his rabid supporters to storm the capital building and to kill a cop. That never happened. Trump didn't think a bunch of MAGAtards were going to pull off a coup for him. Even Trump is not that insane.

For weeks he stoked his followers to violence and he all but told them to do it, Trump knew full well his antics were going to result in violence, And he is that insane.

Trump was massively irresponsible that day and shit went down in part due to his words. I don't deny that. We are entirely on the same page when it comes to this. But legally, he said be peaceful, so that gives him the legal out. I just don't see any way around that. So morally, we basically agree on this. The legality of the matter is where we differ. You say that he got his rabid supporters to storm the capital, and sure, that is sort of what happened, but you need to meet a very high legal standard to prove such a thing, and I don't think that can be done.

Trump was just irresponsible he knew actually what he was doing and what the result would be, And no calling for peace after weeks of doing the opposite doesn't give him a legal out in any wat shape, or form. He's responsible and he was not punished. Your attempts to downplay his role won't fly here.

Trump knew what they were going to do and had this all planned out for them to storm the capitol? Is that why he put out that message telling them to leave in peace after they stormed the building? Did Trump change his mind mid-faux coup or something? Trump is a pretty indecisive guy, isn't he? Plans a coup apparently and then changes his mind mid-coup haha. Likely story.

---

I don't follow on the self defeating thing you are talking about. Can you go a little further in explaining that? Like I posted, experiments show that we subconsciously make decisions seconds in advance before our conscious mind is even aware of it. That rules out free will. Checkmate.

Subconscious decisions don't even come close to refuting free will. So no checkmate I'm afraid. But please keep providing the evidence for freewill 

You haven't won any argument when first of all, you refuse to even give me your definition of free will, so in actuality I have no idea what you mean when you post about it, and second of all, you won't even give me one name of someone to look up to get a more in depth look at what you're referring to in your posts. I'm not asking you to do research for me. I'll gladly do it.

My definition of free will btw, is the classical idea of free will. The idea the illusion is not just an illusion, and that you consciously can decide between one thing or another thing, and that you could have done otherwise.

If your actions are subconsciously decided seconds before you take those actions, then going by the classical idea of free will, you are not consciously making any decisions. Therefore, there is no free will. There is only will.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Trump knew what they were going to do and had this all planned out for them to storm the capitol? 

Trump invented the lie of a stolen election then prodded his fanatic followers to storm the capital. To pretend otherwise is delusional 

Is that why he put out that message telling them to leave in peace after they stormed the building?

He only did that cover his ass after he realized it failed. Countless reports said was loving the fact it happened and didn't want it to be stopped.

 Did Trump change his mind mid-faux coup or something?

He only did that cover his ass from the inevitable backlash for its failure.

 Trump is a pretty indecisive guy, isn't he? Plans a coup apparently and then changes his mind mid-coup haha. Likely story.

He sparked an insurrection and then tried to distance himself when the consquences came calling.

If you buy his peace bullshit your delusional

---

You haven't won any argument when first of all, you refuse to even give me your definition of free will, so in actuality I have no idea what you mean when you post about it, and second of all, you won't even give me one name of someone to look up to get a more in depth look at what you're referring to in your posts. I'm not asking you to do research for me. I'll gladly do it.

My definition of free will btw, is the classical idea of free will. The idea the illusion is not just an illusion, and that you consciously can decide between one thing or another thing, and that you could have done otherwise.

If your actions are subconsciously decided seconds before you take those actions, then going by the classical idea of free will, you are not consciously making any decisions. Therefore, there is no free will. There is only will.

None of this disproves free will......Fail

[Irreligious Atheist]

Trump knew what they were going to do and had this all planned out for them to storm the capitol? 

Trump invented the lie of a stolen election then prodded his fanatic followers to storm the capital. To pretend otherwise is delusional 

Is that why he put out that message telling them to leave in peace after they stormed the building?

He only did that cover his ass after he realized it failed. Countless reports said was loving the fact it happened and didn't want it to be stopped.

 Did Trump change his mind mid-faux coup or something?

He only did that cover his ass from the inevitable backlash for its failure.

 Trump is a pretty indecisive guy, isn't he? Plans a coup apparently and then changes his mind mid-coup haha. Likely story.

He sparked an insurrection and then tried to distance himself when the consquences came calling.

If you buy his peace bullshit your delusional

---

You haven't won any argument when first of all, you refuse to even give me your definition of free will, so in actuality I have no idea what you mean when you post about it, and second of all, you won't even give me one name of someone to look up to get a more in depth look at what you're referring to in your posts. I'm not asking you to do research for me. I'll gladly do it.

My definition of free will btw, is the classical idea of free will. The idea the illusion is not just an illusion, and that you consciously can decide between one thing or another thing, and that you could have done otherwise.

If your actions are subconsciously decided seconds before you take those actions, then going by the classical idea of free will, you are not consciously making any decisions. Therefore, there is no free will. There is only will.

None of this disproves free will......Fail

What is free will? Do you agree with my definition?

[The Architect Of Fate]

What is free will? 

Keep proving freewill and demonstrating your own wrongness 

Do you agree with my definition?

No 

Oh and subconscious decisions do not refute freewill 

[Rev. Rye]

And just for the record, literally everything I've been able to find about what was happening in the White House that day suggests that Trump was delighted about the riot. And that word comes from Republican Senator Ben Sasse, describing what he heard White House staffers saying about what Trump was doing:

As this was unfolding on television, Donald Trump was walking around the White House confused about why other people on his team weren’t as excited as he was as you had rioters pushing against Capitol Police trying to get into the building.

Why did he end up recording that message telling the rioters to go home peacefully? Remember being a kid and being forced to apologise for something and giving the most threadbare apology for whatever you did? Or were you on the other end of the apology? That's pretty much the only reason Trump made the video telling the rioters to leave peacefully. And it took several hours to convince him to do it. And it turned out that he was the shitty kind of kid who tries to weasel out of the apology by insisting he was in the right, since he apparently made three takes of that video and even in the most usable take, he still called the rioters "very special" and continued to push the bullshit conspiracy that he was cheated out of the election which spurred them on in the first place. And did the same thing on Twitter two hours later.

So, he's basically this, but without the grandma attempting to smooth things over (and, thankfully, this clip from the Boondocks doesn't feature the N-word):

[Irreligious Atheist]

The reports that Trump was amused in the moment are not hard to believe. I can believe that. Still, that has nothing to do with him telling people to riot and kill, which never happened. He told people that we can't let them steal the election, and that you need to be strong but peaceful. That is nowhere near enough to impeach the man, imo, or to hold him accountable in a court of law or whatever. Trump was very clever in his choice of words. Legality and morality are two very different things. Let's be careful not to conflate them. You don't have a legal case that can hold up under scrutiny, I'm sorry to say.

And in response to sungula, thanks for agreeing with me that free will does not exist in the classical sense, which is what 98 percent of people mean when they are talking about free will. No idea what your definition is of free will since you are avoiding answering that question for whatever reason, so we'll have to leave it here and agree to disagree since I have no clue how you define your terms and you don't seem to want to get into a debate about it.

[The Architect Of Fate]

The reports that Trump was amused in the moment are not hard to believe.

Yup amused that all his fearmongering, lies, and calls to violence succeed 

I can believe that. Still, that has nothing to do with him telling people to riot and kill, which never happened. He told people that we can't let them steal the election, and that you need to be strong but peaceful. 

He invented a lie and fearmongered for weeks. The fact he covers his ass afterward doesn't change that

That is nowhere near enough to impeach the man, imo, or to hold him accountable in a court of law or whatever. 

It's more than enough to impeach him. He got off easy 

Trump was very clever in his choice of words. Legality and morality are two very different things. Let's be careful not to conflate them. You don't have a legal case that can hold up under scrutiny, I'm sorry to say.

Trump was clever in the slightest he was clumsy throughout, And he can and should have been held legally responsible 

And in response to sungula, thanks for agreeing with me that free will does not exist in the classical sense, which is what 98 percent of people mean when they are talking about free will. No idea what your definition is of free will since you are avoiding answering that question for whatever reason, so we'll have to leave it here and agree to disagree since I have no clue how you define your terms and you don't seem to want to get into a debate about it.

I never agreed with you on free will. I avoided nothing, And there is nothing to disagree on because you're wrong and you keep proving yourself wrong. So I take this comment as an admission of defeat. Freewill exists period

[Fake Messiah]

The reports that Trump was amused in the moment are not hard to believe. I can believe that. Still, that has nothing to do with him telling people to riot and kill, which never happened. He told people that we can't let them steal the election, and that you need to be strong but peaceful. That is nowhere near enough to impeach the man, imo, or to hold him accountable in a court of law or whatever. Trump was very clever in his choice of words. Legality and morality are two very different things. Let's be careful not to conflate them. You don't have a legal case that can hold up under scrutiny, I'm sorry to say.

Here's what legal scholar, Garrett Epps, concluded

Trump clearly knew there were people in that crowd who were ready to and intended to be violent, and he certainly did nothing to discourage that. He not only did nothing to discourage it, he strongly hinted it should happen.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55640437

And the key points of the speech that you forgot to mention:

'We won this election, and we won it by a landslide'

'We will stop the steal'

'We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn't happen'

'If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore'

[The Architect Of Fate]

The reports that Trump was amused in the moment are not hard to believe. I can believe that. Still, that has nothing to do with him telling people to riot and kill, which never happened. He told people that we can't let them steal the election, and that you need to be strong but peaceful. That is nowhere near enough to impeach the man, imo, or to hold him accountable in a court of law or whatever. Trump was very clever in his choice of words. Legality and morality are two very different things. Let's be careful not to conflate them. You don't have a legal case that can hold up under scrutiny, I'm sorry to say.

Here's what legal scholar, Garrett Epps, concluded

Trump clearly knew there were people in that crowd who were ready to and intended to be violent, and he certainly did nothing to discourage that. He not only did nothing to discourage it, he strongly hinted it should happen.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55640437

And the key points of the speech that you forgot to mention:

'We won this election, and we won it by a landslide'

'We will stop the steal'

'We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn't happen'

'If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore'

Yup weeks of lying and fearmongering with the full knowledge his followers would try and disrupt the election and commit violence. Because that was the only logical outcome. But AI must downplay it no matter what