[Quranic reflection]: hell is a black hole-part III

[Jehanne]

That's the immense disappointment of islam in a nutshell.  Here was this religion that could have left more space for legitimate discovery.  

Failed.

I would say: "here are the followers of Islam shocked by the Mongol sack of Baghdad and the Islamic empire; having 600 years of scientific discoveries drowned in the Euphrates; having their women, men, children and loved ones ending up butchered and raped:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

Muslims never woke up from that shock until today.

This is just bullshit; ever hear of this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus

I can't believe that you are spreading patently disinformation on this board.

[The Grand Nudger]

That's the immense disappointment of islam in a nutshell.  Here was this religion that could have left more space for legitimate discovery.  

Failed.

I would say: "here are the followers of Islam shocked by the Mongol sack of Baghdad and the Islamic empire; having 600 years of scientific discoveries drowned in the Euphrates; having their women, men, children and loved ones ending up butchered and raped:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

Muslims never woke up from that shock until today.

You can break a whole nation if you gave it enough brutality and monstrosity.

Cry me a river - you wont find anyone here without some ancient tribal scar in their legendary past. Didn't leave us all frothing loons forever. Just you and yours.

Yet another example of how your myths are pigshit. Cant handle setbacks.

[arewethereyet]

Tomorrow is Easter... can't we just deal with one bullshit story at a time?

[JairCrawford]

Um… well it’s been a while since the last time I skimmed through the Quran so, there may be some missing context as far as my understanding of the Islamic depictions of hell.

But the first question that comes to mind (if this is even a phenomenon in the Quran) is, which hell are you referring to? Is it Sheol/Hades, or Gehenna? Because those are two very different things. But from my understanding, Revelation implies that Sheol/Hades will be thrown into Gehenna. Im making an educated guess that this is a cognate to the Islamic Jahanna(sp?). By my limited understanding so far, it sounds to me like the underworld (believed to be under the earth) will be consumed by the lake of fire. If the Quran has any direct references to such ideas, then the location of hell would be best interpreted as beneath the earth. Of course, we are dealing with multiple traditions that range from ancient Canaanite culture all the way to… circa 600-ish AD? If my memory serves me correctly. Which means the fundamental understanding of this underworld is from a flat earth perspective where the earth floats on the primordial waters with the firmament separating the waters, etc.

Long story short… I see no connections at all with black holes. The authors of the Tanakh, New Testament, and the Quran were not even aware of the earth being a sphere, let alone what a black hole was.

@arewethereyet Ironically, after all that, I’m about to go to bed as I have a piano gig at an Easter sunrise service. I would say happy Easter but I don’t know how well received that would be here so I’ll refrain.

[The Grand Nudger]

Folks who believed the moon was split in two then reassembled. It's fair to say they didn't know much about space.

Thing that's interesting though, is that secular space shit is more real to this muslim than islamic shit is. That's why he's arguing islamic shit in by way of secular space shit..and not vv.

[WinterHold]

I would say: "here are the followers of Islam shocked by the Mongol sack of Baghdad and the Islamic empire; having 600 years of scientific discoveries drowned in the Euphrates; having their women, men, children and loved ones ending up butchered and raped:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

Muslims never woke up from that shock until today.

This is just bullshit; ever hear of this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus

I can't believe that you are spreading patently disinformation on this board.

So you're comparing the occupation of Spain with the Mongol atrocities?
..Score.

[The Grand Nudger]

Which mongol atrocities? The timurid and mughal ones? probably not..cuz muslim, or some such shit. I think you should stick to getting one thing wrong at a time. Is this alt astronomy or alt history time?

[Jehanne]

This is just bullshit; ever hear of this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus

I can't believe that you are spreading patently disinformation on this board.

So you're comparing the occupation of Spain with the Mongol atrocities?
..Score.

The Mongols never made it to Spain. Al-Andalus was a major hub of Islamic scholarship and did not disappear even with the Reconquista, as Islamic texts were translated into Latin by the Christians.

Over the centuries into the modern era, Islam has become more anti-intellectual, that's why so few Muslims have won the Noble Prize.

[R00tKiT]

Long story short… I see no connections at all with black holes.

Nobody does. OP is being non sensical as usual.

The authors of the Tanakh, New Testament, and the Quran were not even aware of the earth being a sphere, let alone what a black hole was.

Ibn Taymiyyah reported a scholarly consensus (ijma') on the Earth being round. In other words, all major Muslim scholars of his era understood from the Qur'an and the prophet's sayings that the Earth is indeed round.  Ibn Hazm also reported this consensus.

Looks like you don't know what you're talking about. 

Folks who believed the moon was split in two then reassembled.  It's fair to say they didn't know much about space.

Miracles are by definition an interruption of the laws of physics. Muslims believe God split the moon and reassembled it just like any other theist who believes in miracles.

How much one knows about space is irrelevant, whatever physical law that governs space can be interrupted by God anyway.

Over the centuries into the modern era, Islam has become more anti-intellectual, that's why so few Muslims have won the Noble Prize.

Muslims are just people who are determined by their socioeconomic status and their education as any other human being. Few Muslims winning a Nobel Prize is better explained by the quality of their educational systems in Muslim countries and how serious they are about funding research, etc. This has absolutely nothing to do with ther beliefs.

How can you guarantee that all other things are equal to make such statements on the sole basis of religion.. how many other factors were neglected ..?

No scholar from Mozambique ever won a Nobel prize. It must be because of christianity, it must be..! 

[arewethereyet]

Honey, do you need some Midol?  You seem a bit tense today.

Yes, please. 

This made me LOL.  I was happy to see a sense of humor and light-heartedness from you.