Russia and Ukraine

[Deesse23]

The fact that we couldnt have this discussion/thread at all in Russia, or if we did, part of us would be imprisoned and part of us would have had "terrible accidents" should tell us enough about Bels credibility and Putins quality of government.

[Belacqua]

So, the U.S. is authoritarian because it supports someone's fight against authoritarianism?

I guess I'm an uber-authoritarian, then, because I believe dictatorship should be made illegal internationally.  Any leadership which drops below a certain level of democracy and openness should be immediately sanctioned.

Before the war started, it was universally acknowledged that Ukraine was one of the most corrupt countries in Europe. It has banned at least 10 opposition parties from standing in elections and made large parts of its population into second class citizens. 

By your standards, the US should sanction it and refuse to provide any economic or military aid.

The US is not authoritarian because it supports someone else's fight against authoritarianism. If it is doing that somewhere, that's good.

[Belacqua]

Well, the news keeps coming. It's hard to stop.

After kissing Saudi Arabia's ass for decades, the US gets stabbed in the back.

A coalition of oil-producing nations led by Russia and Saudi Arabia announced Wednesday it will slash oil production by 2 million barrels per day, in a rebuke to President Biden that could push up gas prices worldwide, worsen the risk of a global recession and bolster Russia in its war in Ukraine.

Neither Saudi Arabia nor Israel have agreed to sanction Russia. The US is losing its ability to control these things, even with long-time allies.

Have to be careful once the rat is in the corner.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/...di-arabia/

Also the people of Haiti are rioting to get rid of their authoritarian, US-backed government, but the US hasn't responded.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@Belacqua

So, not so much this, then?

Well, I think I've made myself about as popular on this thread as I can, so I'll give a brief summary and then call it quits.

Boru

[The Architect Of Fate]

That's all Tankies ever do. They Helicopter from one desperate point to the next. Like with a creationist it's a game of disinoformation whack-a-mole.

What are Tankies?

It was a negative term for Marxists. But these days tankies aren't really about marxism anymore they have warped into the cult of " America Bad" and any regime that opposes America no matter how oppressive and evil they are is good by the merit of being in opposition to America.

[The Architect Of Fate]

I think this is supposed to be an insult to me, though I'm not sure.

It's not an insult.It's a fact. If you are insulted by it that's your problem 

 As I mentioned before, anyone who doesn't believe that America is pure and good is accused of being some kind of apologist for some other evil thing.

And this is a strawman. I do not believe nor have ever believed America is pure and its goodness is only in contrast to greater evils like Putin's  Russia so no. And you are an apologist but not because you don't think America is pure and good but because you think Putin's Russia is in any way good or worst you engage in whataboutism and bothsidism that would make Lenin blush. So no that is why you are an apologist for evil.

It has no relevance to anything I've said. I have never said anything in praise of Marxism-Leninism or countries which operate on those principles. (I have praised China, but this has a kind of hybrid state capitalist system, nothing like Leninism.) The fact that I oppose the authoritarian tendencies of the US must be misconstrued as something else.

Most tankies don't talk about Marxism anymore. They engage in apologetics for any two-bit despot who has an issue with America and both create and amplify those regimes talking points to run cover for their atrocities. And you don't stand against authoritarianism you simply use it as a talking point to lie for actual authoritarians ....

[Thumpalumpacus]

Russia says it's open to negotiations, but the US prefers to continue the war.

https://news.antiwar.com/2022/10/11/lavr...-comments/

What fool negotiates with a known liar?

[Ranjr]

What fool negotiates with a known liar?

Exactly.  Even Putin knows this.  What you do is find dirt on him and use it blackmail him into weakening NATO.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Before the war started, it was universally acknowledged that Ukraine was one of the most corrupt countries in Europe.

Yup and Russia was more corrupt and Ukraine's culture of corruption is largely a product of Russia's culture of corruption spreading to its neighbors 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/15...in-ukraine

It has banned at least 10 opposition parties from standing in elections and made large parts of its population into second class citizens. 

Those were not opposition parties those were Russian-backed parties that were there to drag Ukraine back under Russia's influence and no banning those parties did not make anyone a second-class citizen. Now contrast that with Russia which is ruled by a group of unelected oligarchs and elections are a sham and Putin is essentially the Tzar in all but name, And you want to whine about Ukraine banning some Russian puppets.  

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/...ia-parties

By your standards, the US should sanction it and refuse to provide any economic or military aid.

Nope, the only standard he needs is Russia invaded Ukraine. That alone justifies helping them....

The US is not authoritarian because it supports someone else's fight against authoritarianism. If it is doing that somewhere, that's good.

The US is not an authoritarian state  period. It's not great but it's not authoritarian and in this fight, it certainly is not authoritarian.

[Thumpalumpacus]

What fool negotiates with a known liar?

Exactly.  Even Putin knows this.  What you do is find dirt on him and use it blackmail him into weakening NATO.

@Belacqua's shitstorm of far-right links highlights her bias better than any response could do. The only thing she's doing is showing herself to be either 1) obscenely ignorant or 2) a shill for Russian propaganda.

In either event, I'm glad those like @Helios and others are taking the time to wade through her bullshit and debunk it.

If she truly is an expatriate, great. I don't want such low-information people voting in American elections ... we've got more than enough of those already.