An Open Discussion on Russian Identity

[Leonardo17]

   Today I wanted to add some perspective on the DNA or the true identity of the Russian state. That’s because I do not really agree with today’s Ukrainian biased / Western perception of the USSR entirely. Especially for the North Americans, the USSR is “The Empire of Evil”. So I want to put that a little bit into perspective if I can.

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   These are the Words of Elena Kotschukenko. A Russian dissident journalist living in Germany (born in 1986) who is likely to have been poisoned last year as a warning from the Kremlin as it has become their way of doing things She says:
 
"I was so sure that we are immune because for Christ's sake, we fought the fascists. My grandfather did,"
 
And also says:
 
 "We have whole movies telling us how fascism works, why it's so dangerous, and how it goes from a nice narrative to mass murders. I was totally sure we were immune."
 
And Adds:
 
"With what's happening in the world, with this turn toward global authoritarianism and the tendencies you also have in your country, it's not safe,"
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-dissi...p_catchall
 
So I wanted to discuss this a little. As I said before, I don’t think that Putinizm and bolshevism (and/or Leninism / Stalinizm) is the same thing. The Soviet Union was a state based on the Marxist idea of “Proletarian Dictatorship”. This means: No free elections, but a communist project that is designed to support the creation of a socialist state.
 
   Now in History, most of Communist ventures ended up becoming something else. China for instance is an authoritarian state with a market economy allowing public intervention into the private sector. That’s not real capitalism. But that’s not communism either.
   South American Sandinistas, Hugo Chavez’s venture in Venezuela, or even Cuba after Fidel Castro, these are what I call left-wing populist states that perhaps began as socialist ventures but gradually turned into mafia-states.
 
   The Soviet Union is different. It is definitely not what left wing parties in the 60’s etc. believed it to be but it was still something. The economy was a socialist economy. You had free healthcare, free education, public housing. If you wanted a car, they put you on a list and the car was delivered to you after a number of years. In the market (an I saw hat). It didn’t matter if you had cash or not. Everybody had a lot of cash. What mattered was if there was something gto buy or not. If there was something, you would queue for it (for several hours sometimes) than you would get it. Workers has acess to theatre, opera and various types of social / cultural events free of charge. So it was something different + it was something. I describe it as “a socialist venture” or “an attempt to create a Marxist state” (which has failed obviously).
 
Yet that state had some values. And Elena Kotschukenko is right on this: communism is truly anti-fascist in many ways and not just in terms of superficial propaganda. Communism is a society with no social classes. It’s multi-cultural / multi ethnic, it’s universal. (when they went to Afghanistan the idea was to make them communists). And as she said, communists know the way fascism begins and spreads within a society and it sees it as a plague that is worse than capitalism or Imperialism.
 
So what Putin is doing (in my view) is to take whatever is left from the Soviet Union (army, propaganda technique, economical tools, tools of social repression, espionage organization, everything) and put all of that into the service of fascism.

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Now Bolshevism does not exist anymore. The Soviet Union is gone. But there is still this “DNA of the Russian State”. And I believe Putin is the greatest betrayal to this Russian DNA. It is an abomination for Soviet times (as I tried to show). And if there were any Tsarist alive in our time, I think they would agree that it is an abomination to that as well.  

[Thumpalumpacus]

Communism is a society with no social classes.

The Soviet society definitely had two classes in practice, the nomenklatura and the proletariat. The former had access to luxury shops, foreign travel, and other special privileges.

[no one]

An asshat is an asshat is an asshat. No matter witch patch of dirt sprouted them.

[Deesse23]

My family has lived in the CCCP from 1945 to 1962. My extended family is still living on this former CCCP territory now, being EU citizens now.
At best your fairy tale fits to major population centers. Everybody else, everywhere else was just struggling for survival.

[The Grand Nudger]

Empire of Evil...eh?

[Leonardo17]

My family has lived in the CCCP from 1945 to 1962. My extended family is still living on this former CCCP territory now, being EU citizens now.
At best your fairy tale fits to major population centers. Everybody else, everywhere else was just struggling for survival.

 
The US President Biden has some very interesting explanation on Stalinian agricultural policies to break the spirit of Ukrainian resistance during the Holodomor.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-draws-p...46982.html
 

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The Excess Mortality under the regime of Stalin is estimated to be between 6 and 9 million people. The Figure under Mao-tse-Tug in China is estimated to be at least 5 time that number. And the Red Terror issued by Lenin is said to have resulted in 6 million deaths throughout what was the Russian Empire.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/vladimir-lenin.asp
 
But I agree with this Elena Kotchukenko too. Once it was created, this “Communist block” was completely anti-fascist. Their difference I would say lay in the fact that they were a more rational actor. They were going after this ideal of “historical dialectic” that included a process of equality and freedom. But a lot of things went wrong since the very beginning, so they failed.

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1) All I am saying is that these two things are different. No one could coexist with Imperial Japan. The CCCP existed some 80 years, we had a border with them in the East, and a border with their satellite state in the West. Nothing bad happened. I least they didn’t invade us (I mean my country + they even helped us in our war of independence).

2) And after they were gone they weren’t hated by everyone. Only very nationalistic Spaniard love Franco today. There is no one who commemorates people like Augusto Pinochet in Chile today. Only people with psychic issues love fascist dictators. That is not the case for communists. Communists did get it wrong too. But there was still that tiny little part they did manage to get it right and that makes the entire difference. (or that’s how I see it)

[The Grand Nudger]

You're absolutely wrong about literally all of that. It's okay....it just means that you're a normal human being who can't even begin to imagine how fucked up the weirdos actually are.

[Deesse23]

. Communists did get it wrong too. But there was still that tiny little part they did manage to get it right and that makes the entire difference. (or that’s how I see it)

Neighbour of dad/grandma was not fond of the CCCP. NKVD paid him a visit. Result: Neighbour dead in the yard of his farm. Noone talked about it, since noone like to end up like neighbour. After the fall of CCCP a mass grave of Lithuanian partisans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_...tic_states) was found near our farm. Of course, during CCCP noone liked to even talk about this.

But at least the Communists got a tiny part right. School was free and people could go to theatre, right? That made the entire difference. Right?

Edit: 250.000 Lithuanians had been deported to Siberia. Total population TODAY: 4mio

[Nanny]

Russian identity depends on where you sit in the pyramid. The view from the top is very different from the bottom rungs. It's a cleptocracy.

[Leonardo17]

. Communists did get it wrong too. But there was still that tiny little part they did manage to get it right and that makes the entire difference. (or that’s how I see it)

Neighbour of dad/grandma was not fond of the CCCP. NKVD paid him a visit. Result: Neighbour dead in the yard of his farm. Noone talked about it, since noone like to end up like neighbour. After the fall of CCCP a mass grave of Lithuanian partisans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_...tic_states) was found near our farm. Of course, during CCCP noone liked to even talk about this.

But at least the Communists got a tiny part right. School was free and people could go to theatre, right? That made the entire difference. Right?

Edit: 250.000 Lithuanians had been deported to Siberia. Total population TODAY: 4mio

   I think we are only beginning to learn about the excesses of communism. Many of the things they did are still unknown. Like for instance, they must have far greater casualties in Afghanistan. The actual number is 15,000 dead and 35,000 wounded. US numbers (in 10 years) is 2500 killed 21,000 wounded. So Soviet Generals, Taliban’s with US weapons, 10 year war (1979-1989) maybe that number is two time what they are saying.
 

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But: I just saw Joaquin Phoenix’s movie (Napoleon). Did you know they he caused the death of 3 million soldiers (and we don’t even know the number of people who died because of famine / sickness etc. as a result of his wars).
 
And that’s a main theme in spirituality. Sadhguru refers to Alexander the Great as “The Great Fool”. These are basically people with a lot of IQ, EQ + ambition. Where they end up in the end is usually the same place
 
But none of us hates Napoleon or Alexander the Great. These are not pure monsters Like Franco of Mussolini. Why? – Because they have ideals / they have some sort of goal in their mind (even if they are great fools in their roots).
 
So socialism was an experiment. If you never read Karl Marx you should try it. Because he has really great ideas. And these guys (unsuccessfully) tried to put these ideas into practice. While I carefully like do dissociate myself from them, I still see value in the principles that lied behind their actions.
 

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Technically: Our society today is very problematic, in many ways, and we’ll have to solve that at some point. That’s all I am saying