I am a pro-life atheist

[reverendjeremiah]

Whilst I would like to continue discussing this with people, various comments made in this thread and others have left a nasty taste in my mouth.

Thats your problem, not mine.

I don't appreciate being lied about in a public forum,

Just because you claim they are lies do not make them lies. Quite frankly I dont appreciate being called a liar. I rarely would ever lie, and then only would I do such to help save someone. I surely would not waste my time lying to the likes of you.

especially when the person doing so says it is I who should be held to a higher standard, and claims I "ran" from a debate with him (as if that even counts as something against me; people turn down debates all the time).

I had no problem with it at first, then as I saw how your attitude was afterwards it became quite obvious to me that you DID have time to do it, but you were just too chicken shit to do it. Wether people turn down debates in that past has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Stop trying to deflect attention. You ran. Its obvious you ran. and no amount of guile will change that fact.

This is obviously a contentious issue for people, and for the sake of forum civility, I'm not going to make any public statements on it again. If you wish to ask questions / discuss this with me in private, please send me a PM.

Oh, Im pretty sure that this will probably be my very last response to you on this forum. Unless, of course, you go around spreading lies about me again.

You leave me be and I will leave you be.

[Nine]

Me three .. in principle but I'm against death penalty in practice in the US because I don't trust our legal system to get it right consistently enough to suit me.

If somebody is a serious threat to other humans I am more than happy for them to receive the death penalty providing its a 100% certain they committed murder.

As for abortion personally I would prefer people to go through with the pregnancy. But I'm certainly not in favor of taking away peoples choice to have an abortion. In my opinion it would be driven underground and that's never a good thing.

Though being me I could change my mind again

[reverendjeremiah]

So you're saying yes, it's human life, but as long as that life is within your physical confines you can do with it whatever you please? If I put a midget in my stomach would I automatically have supreme power over he/she? You'll say I had the choice to put it there, but so does the woman.

It is the womans umbilical cord...she can cut it for any reason...ANY REASON.

You’re working on your third-story roof with a friend. He slips but just catches hold of an electrical cord. He’s hanging thirty feet over a concrete sidewalk. Do you have the right to cut the cord? It’s yours.

And yes, there you go again. Compairing apples and oranges.

Is the extension chord biologically connected to me?

No.

Is the extension chord sapping my nutrients and giving them to the other man?

No.

Did the other man come about from the very biological building blocks of my body?

No.

Is the man currently inside of my body and part of my body?

No.

Then why would you think this is a comparable argument with abortion?

You must not be very educated. I expect arguments like this to come from a 6 year old. Even my 10 year old son would see through the bullshit of this line of thinking.

[Tiberius]

Just because you claim they are lies do not make them lies. Quite frankly I dont appreciate being called a liar. I rarely would ever lie, and then only would I do such to help save someone. I surely would not waste my time lying to the likes of you.

No, but given that I know my own mind, I'm in a pretty good place to call them lies. I don't care if you don't appreciate being called a liar; you are one.

I had no problem with it at first, then as I saw how your attitude was afterwards it became quite obvious to me that you DID have time to do it, but you were just too chicken shit to do it. Wether people turn down debates in that past has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Stop trying to deflect attention. You ran. Its obvious you ran. and no amount of guile will change that fact.

I do have the time to debate you; I've never denied that. I originally asked for extra time to finish my opening statement, and during that time, you made several comments about me which called into question (for me) your ability to have civilised debate. I don't appreciate people who make up or distort people's views in order to score points, and I certainly don't debate them, there would be no point. A debate is supposed to be about two people's conflicting beliefs; not one person's beliefs and what that person can contort the other's beliefs into.

Oh, Im pretty sure that this will probably be my very last response to you on this forum. Unless, of course, you go around spreading lies about me again.

You leave me be and I will leave you be.

Fuck you.

[reverendjeremiah]

No, but given that I know my own mind, I'm in a pretty good place to call them lies. I don't care if you don't appreciate being called a liar; you are one.

Call me a liar all you want. doesnt change reality.

I do have the time to debate you; I've never denied that. I originally asked for extra time to finish my opening statement, and during that time, you made several comments about me which called into question (for me) your ability to have civilised debate.

this is probably the worst characteristic you have. The inability to admit fault. You have to find some way to blame your shortcomings on other people. You tucked your tail. You ran. And instead of admitting it, you try to blame it on me. Needless to say it is this inability to admit fault which has now brought me to the conclusion that a debate with you would have been flat out pointless...but Im sure you can find some way to blame it on anyone but yourself. Logcial thought and maturity bring people to the point of admiting their short comings and wrong doings. You apparently havent reached that point in your life yet.

I don't appreciate people who make up or distort people's views in order to score points, and I certainly don't debate them, there would be no point. A debate is supposed to be about two people's conflicting beliefs; not one person's beliefs and what that person can contort the other's beliefs into.

Last I checked the debate was to have no winners or losers or a point system. So why would I lie about someone like you to get some non-existent points for a debate that you obviously werent planning on doing to begin with?

But thats okay.

Tuck your tail.

Run from me.

And then blame it all on me to make yourself feel better.

Fuck you.

Careful now.... Language like that can get your warning level rated up.

[Tiberius]

Reality seems to often come around and bite liars like you in the ass, as was evidenced by all the people who leapt to my defence, despite most of them disagreeing with my political beliefs. Nobody likes liars, especially when they are supposedly on the same side as you.

I'll admit fault when there is fault to admit. My reasons for ending the debate (before it had even started I might add) are as clear as day to anyone who has read your posts. You don't care about debate; all you care about are smashing your opponent into submission by distorting their position time and time again, and spreading the most malicious lies about them. It is tantamount to cyber bullying, and people have called you out on your behaviour multiple times.

Yet again, we see you making up lies, even in this thread. So now apparently I never intended on doing the debate in the first place? Is that why we had so many PMs discussing what it would be about, and how it was going to work? Is that why we created the debate topic? I submit that it is you with the immaturity here; you have such high opinions of yourself, such that when I'm happy just to let the debate go for personal reasons, you constantly bring it up as if you won. Newsflash! If someone refuses to debate you, it means they refused to debate you, not that you had a debate and wiped the floor with them.

I don't give two fucks if my warning level is rated up. I'm this close to just calling it quits again.

[Erinome]

This issue can get so heated, as we know, and I have been incredibly outspoken about this issue in the past.

I am not going to rant, I just want to say that if men could get pregnant, there would be drive-thru abortion clinics, birth control sold OTC, and a whole lot of whining going on. Being pregnant is extremely difficult for someone who has planned it, and happy about it. If pro-lifers were really as morally compassionate as they claim to be, they would care more about the life of the mother, which is a functioning life with a brain, heart, and feelings. I've seen young, promising lives utterly destroyed by one mistake, leading to an unwanted pregnancy.

Abortion is rarely an easy decision for anyone. Now, I have a confession to make:

I had my tubes tied after my second child was born, and two babies, and one adoption plan later, I have had them checked over and over again, and every doctor tells me they're tied off, and there is no way I could get pregnant, but I have anyway, and I recently did again. Last month, I found out I was pregnant for a 5th time. This, in spite of my tubal ligation, and using condoms with my partner. After speaking with my doctor, he informed me that if I had a 5th c-section at this time, I would probably die, if I made it 40 weeks without my uterus rupturing. At 4 weeks gestation, just 2 weeks ago, I had an abortion.

I am a murderer in the eyes of many, but you know what, I have lives to nurture here. I have 3 other children that need me, and they have brains, and hearts, and feelings. So rain your judgements down upon me if you must, but know that I really really really don't give a flying fuck what you think.

[NoMoreFaith]

RE Reverend & Tiberius: The phrase "Get A Room" comes to mind. What on earth makes you think this is the relevant place to continue your little war of words. Its irrelevant to the topic, and bouncing back and forth with "You Liar!" "Nooooooo YOU LIAR!" "OMG, NO YOU LIAR!" is ... just bloody retarded.

Getting sick of intelligent discussions getting railroaded by the inability of either of you to simply make polite comment without veiled innuendo etc.

[Tiberius]

@NoMoreFaith:

Stay out of this; this doesn't concern you. This is a public forum; people can talk about what they like here. I'll call out reverendjeremiah for as long as he continues to spread lies about me, because one thing I won't stand for is blatant dishonesty when it comes to what I believe.

[reverendjeremiah]

*yawn*

You bore me Tiberius. I grow tired of your constant crying and whining.

---

@NoMoreFaith:

Stay out of this; this doesn't concern you. This is a public forum; people can talk about what they like here. I'll call out reverendjeremiah for as long as he continues to spread lies about me, because one thing I won't stand for is blatant dishonesty when it comes to what I believe.

Wow..for once me and Tib actually agree on something. Not about the lies he spreads, but about people trying to stop conversation.