Sweden Aims for "Gender Neutrality"

[Shell B]

As it stands, it's significantly more difficult for a male to admit to weakness than it is for a female, something which gender neutrality laws would help to change.

Seriously? Haha, show me a study for that one, pal.

---

The good in traditional roles? Why are they good- because you find them adorable? I think they often times enforce sexism. I'd rather split things 50/50 with anyone I was romantically involved in.

*sigh* Didn't I point out that I didn't care which sex took on each "traditional" role? I like them because they promote steady, stable homes for children. They allow for homemaking in a way that the non-agricultural way of living we keep now does not. This is coming from a woman who tried being a stay at home for a few months and hated it. My point is, children do well when they are in the care of one or both of their parents, not being shuffled to a sitter or a daycare. I like that. Also, I fail to see how that is not splitting things 50/50. Staying at home is harder than any other job I have ever done and that is saying a lot, considering I went from welding to being a chef.

Wouldn't it be a great world where men weren't any more feared than women?

It would be illogical. I'm not afraid of women because the average woman can't kick my ass. That being said, I'm not really afraid of one sex more than the other. I wouldn't leave my kid in a bathroom full of any adults.

I'm not saying we should start sharing bathrooms, but I get very sick of people acting like modern crime is one sided on a basis of gender.

I love it when arguments devolve into these kind of off-hand accusations. Who the hell acted like modern crime is one-sided? I'm willing to bet I can cite specific examples of more female killers than any other person in this thread. That's just assuming that no one else researches historic crimes on a regular basis.

[R-e-n-n-a-t]

*sigh* Didn't I point out that I didn't care which sex took on each "traditional" role? I like them because they promote steady, stable homes for children. They allow for homemaking in a way that the non-agricultural way of living we keep now does not.

And that is precisely why it's sexist. You actually think that too.

[Shell B]

And that is precisely why it's sexist. You actually think that too.

Are you being deliberately obtuse because you have some sort of gripe? Does something ride on me being the big fat sexist? Here's the problem with your retarded label. A. I don't give a fuck if a man is the stay at home mom and another man works while they play house. Any other gender scenario is fine as well. B. I don't see anything wrong with both partners working, either.

Bottom line, one person cooking, cleaning and raising the kids full time is more stable. That is not to say that kids raised different won't be fine. I just happen to like that kind of set up. Hey, unless you want to suggest that every couple should dump their kids at daycare the day after birth or work different shifts until their kids go to school (which is hell on a relationship), you're a fucking sexist too.

[R-e-n-n-a-t]

And that is precisely why it's sexist. You actually think that too.

Bottom line, one person cooking, cleaning and raising the kids full time is more stable.

False.

[Shell B]

False.

Well, when you have something more concrete to add backed up by even so much as your particular brand of sweeping conjecture, let me know. Hell, if you even want to explain how my statements have been even remotely sexist or why you seem to have a Shell bug up your ass, let me know.

[Reforged]

Whilst I think the idea of "gender neutrality" has good intentions, I think some of the things talked about in that article would just lead to unfairness. For instance, ignoring the physical differences between male and female athletes and having them compete against one another would in most cases lead to male-dominated sports victories.

What does everyone else think? Should we ignore the genetic / physical differences between males and females in order to promote a "more equal" society, and is such a society really more equal?

I think the Swedes have it right. I mean, genetic differences in people of the same sex already make the playing field in the athletics uneven. I'm fairly certain I couldn't outrun any Olympian, male or female. Should I complain that I don't have my own category? Besides, should that come to be I have no doubt females would dominate other areas that aren't sports related.
This is exactly what the womens rights movement has been aiming towards; equality. Its a victory for democracy which is a rare thing these days.

[R-e-n-n-a-t]

False.

Well, when you have something more concrete to add backed up by even so much as your particular brand of sweeping conjecture, let me know. Hell, if you even want to explain how my statements have been even remotely sexist or why you seem to have a Shell bug up your ass, let me know.

I'm claiming a negative, whereas you're claiming a positive, and you know how that goes on atheist forums. Burden of proof, etc.

I'm going to abandon this though, since neither of us is going to admit defeat. I've seen enough studies claiming near equality that I can't logically be swayed, whereas you've either seen contrary studies or you're arguing from bias, and either way I can't know for sure which is correct about you. It comes down to the only possible outcome being for one of us to walk away, so that's what I'm doing.

[Violet]

So we have guys and almost gals, and one gal who hasn't really entered an opinion but simply questioned those who did.

The opinions of men who haven't had sex with me...

I'll have to remember that gals with deformities are only 'almost' gals. Yes that seems sensible

---

It depends if they are trying to be gender neutral in every respect, or where it's actually needed. If they are going to say male and female bathrooms are segregation and should be neutral to where there is only one bathroom for both, there might be some problems

I'm a fan of single-person unisex bathrooms.

Takes all of those problems out of the picture.

---

I beg to differ. There is a very good reason for it. When a woman sees a male in the woman's room, she knows to go on the defensive.

Funnily... that is the same response I have to another woman in the woman's room.

---

BTW, just as many females are creepers as males.
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/ID41E2.pdf

That's the bit of it I doubt. Regardless, the situation is entirely avoidable.

---

seeing them at the urinal.

* Violet sees no point in the existence of the urinal.

---

Call me biased but I have sneaking suspicion that there is a causal link between high levels of testosterone and the aggression/violence found in young men generally. I am not entirely convinced that high levels of oestrogen have a similar effect on women.

You haven't seen my girlfriend on her period

---

Of course females can be stalkers. They can be anything that a man can be, but let's face it, some things are more likely when you're a male or a female.

As for the amount of men admitting to rape, the same goes for women. There aren't many men that I can overpower and rape.

But there are a lot of children you can.

Furthermore, having sex with a male requires that they are aroused, unless we are talking penetration and I have to assume that women raping men in their behinds is rare indeed.

The power of the strap-on. Alternately they could be a transwoman pre-SRS (how they could stomach doing it is... just eeww).

---

By the way, you are correct: I don't think females can't be stalkers. I simply know that men are more commonly such-and more dangerous as such.

I'll tell Ash that females can't be stalkers... I'm sure I'll believe me XD

---

So, you are basing your sweeping statement about women being as creepy as men on what sort of logic here? The fact that many men do not report being raped or molested by women? Let us call it the Rapist of the Gaps. Not saying we can prove that it doesn't exist, but you asked for statistics and now I find you quibbling with the data by throwing up smoke screens.

A friend of mine has a close friend who's hella abusive. If her friend was a man I'd have approached her already about it... but if it continues much longer I'll confront her.

Most of my brothers married rather abusive (or at the least emotionally abrasive) women. I was there on the day that my girlfriend's female roommate and gang of cronies threatened her with very real physical violence (mostly women, and I'll note that one of the two men present was trying to control the situation).

I don't believe for a second that women aren't abusive. There are more things a person can do to you that hurt you with than raping or molesting you.

[Faith No More]

* Vaeolet Lilly Blossom sees no point in the existence of the urinal.

Because men need a place to pee without having to worry about the seat being down or getting a few drops on the rim of the toilet. Also, the urinals help us get in and out quickly.

[Violet]

Because men need a place to pee without having to worry about the seat being down or getting a few drops on the rim of the toilet. Also, the urinals help us get in and out quickly.

Who says you need to sit down or stand up? As if those were the only options.

I swear, the lack of creativity in people is astounding. Either that... or people hate the very concepts of squatting or bracing themselves.

* Violet can't even relate how disturbingly hilarious and revolting it is to enter a male bathroom and see them all in a row with their dicks out.

Not that I really can enter a male bathroom anymore... I pass too well

---

I'm going to abandon this though, since neither of us is going to admit defeat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m3ZLFpk8C0

I've seen both sets of studies. All y'all are only half-right... but that's still being half wrong. Yes, women can (and do) do horridly abusive things to others. Yes, the fields of rape and molestation are particularly dominated by men.

Yes, it is less societally acceptable for a man to complain about being raped than it is for a woman to do so... and in (almost?) all cases the victim loses (I'm not even sure what's to be gained by reporting such things if they are no longer happening).

No, we're not equal... but then we aren't insanely far apart either. Anyway, here Shelly:

http://web.archive.org/web/2006020809135...02_e.shtml

And regarding men being (even) less likely to report it

http://www.johnbriere.com/articles.htm

Look for:

Elliott, D.M., Mok, D.S., & Briere, J. (2004). Adult sexual assault: Prevalence, symptomatology, and sex differences in the general population. Journal of Traumatic Stress, 17, 203-211. [click here to download]