Pascal's Wager and the Selfishness of a "Good God"

[Ace Otana]

IT makes sense to believe in a higher being we call God then not too.
Sarah[/b]

'God did it' only makes sense when you know nothing of the universe. You lack knowledge, the only thing you do know is religion. So yeah, it's makes sense, but only to you. You're blind to everything else.

[Adjusted Sanity]

Its obvious that god is using the bible to let only the gullible into heaven. God prevents an uprising in his dictatorship by appealing to the ignorant and sending people with sense to hell. This is the only way the bible makes sense.

Even if I believed in the christian god, this is how I would see things. So I'm screwed either way.

[mediamogul]

If there is no God I have nothing to lose.

Not true. You waste the one chance you get at a life trying to appease a deity that doesn't exist just to get into the happy part of the afterlife that doesn't exist.

Not to mention if your religion makes absurd and anti-natural demands of you.

Anti-gay, anti-abortion, suicide bombing, oppression of women, rejection of contraception, rejection of medicine, rejection of science, sexual repression, hatred of other religions, heathens, infidels etc..

Those are just few examples of the demands that certain religions make of people. Not to mention that most religions assist a person in developing the complex in which they believe they are a worthless sinner not worthy of even the first bit of god's grace, though Catholics do seem to have that market cornered.

You lose your freedom, individuality, and ability to think for yourself.

Those are certainly not "nothing"

[Norfolk And Chance]

That big ball in the sky where did that come from. nothingness.???

Well actually, seeing as though you asked - yes.

You see, there is an equal amount of matter and anti matter in the universe, and in layman's terms it cancels each other out and the entire mass of the universe is exactly 0. Zero. Fuck all. Nothing.

If you can get your head around the universe being nothing, then there is no "can something come from nothing" argument. Nothing is simply nothing. The nothing we have now didn't come from nothing, because nothing is nothing. No need for god to create "something" then.

IT makes sense to believe in a higher being we call God then not too.
Sarah

No, it actually doesn't. At all. Ever.

[Paul the Human]

This poor girl jumped into the deep end of the pool and was nowhere near ready for what she found, me thinks. Anyone making such naive statements and claims and backing them with such basic arguments is obviously a rookie forum user. She didn't realize that the viper pit would have actual vipers inside.

[Minimalist]

There is only one GOD , Christians call him Jesus, the historic and biblical Man/God.

And I'll just bet that you were born and raised in a xtian country with xtian parents who told you all the glories of fucking jesus, right.

You may find this hard to believe but we have muslims on this board who have the same exact feelings about allah. Now ain't that a kick in the ass.


Ethnocentric horseshit..all of it.

[Reforged]

There is only one GOD , Christians call him Jesus, the historic and biblical Man/God. As Christians we believe in the two main principals of the BIBLE , Faith and commandment keeping. If there is no God I have nothing to lose. If there is you guys got everything to lose. Look at the world, look at NDE, why do they all have the same dream or visions of the afterlife, why cant science explain medical miracles ,etc. That big ball in the sky where did that come from. nothingness.??? IT makes sense to believe in a higher being we call God then not too.
Sarah[/b]

If we became like you we'd already have lost the only thing that matters; freedom.
You're a slave to the idea that theres a transcendent tyrant watching your every move, your every thought and if he sees one thing he doesn't like hes going to burn you forever and ever. The fact thats bullshit doesn't cross your mind, you don't even ask for evidence. When you see someone recover from a fatal illness you instantly think "miracle" instead of wondering how it happened. Why?
Because you're indoctrinated.

That little voice of common sense asking the most basic of questions people naturally think of has been silenced for you. Silenced by years upon years of being crushed by the fearful superstitions of an age long since past.
You think you've got something to teach us? We already know your Bible better than you do. You think we haven't considered every question you've got? We have and still do. It never crosses your mind that maybe theres some questions Science can't *yet* answer, you automatically tag it up with "God" to fill up any gaps in your knowledge without so much as a logical explanation.

We've already met you a thousand times before, you spout your nonsense without so much as a seconds worth of research. How about you look at "Evolution" on wikipedia before talking to us? Even better, why don't you just type in "Why does Religion exist?" on google?
Scared of what you might find or just bigoted and lazy?

[darkment0r]

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There is only one GOD ,

Oh, yeah? Prove it.

Christians call him Jesus,

And he has had many other names throughout history. Check out the Mithra fable. It's very similar to your Jesus myth.

the historic and biblical Man/God.

"Historic" and "biblical" are hardly synonoymous.

As Christians we believe in the two main principals of the BIBLE , Faith and commandment keeping.

Then how come there's no commandment forbidding rape, assault or slavery?

If there is no God I have nothing to lose.

Baloney. First off, maybe there is a god, but it's not the one you pray to. Then, when you die, this deity is pissed at you for not believing in him! In order to truly hedge your bets, you'd have to believe in every god ever invented by man. And secondly, nothing to lose? What about all that time you've spent (and continue to spend) worshiping this deity? What about all that time you've spent in church praying to this being? All that money you spent on gas driving to and from church? All those days you could've done something enjoyable instead of sitting in a church? How can you say you've lost nothing? Your life only has so many hours. If you've wasted thousands of them praying to a deity that doesn't exist, how can you seriously say you've lost "nothing"?

If there is you guys got everything to lose.

So you honestly think an "all-loving" deity is going to toss someone into the firepits of hell merely for not believing? Never mind that they may have been a philanthropist who built hospitals, helped the poor and provided housing for the homeless. Their "crime" of nonbelief is enough to send them to hell for eternity? If that's true, then I'd say your god is an unbelievable prick. Oh, and one more question... how would anyone feel pain from the fire in hell? Once we're dead, our nerves don't work any longer.

Look at the world,

I do look at the world. It's an incredibly dangerous and brutal place. Which is why I find the notion of a "loving" deity to be laughable.

look at NDE, why do they all have the same dream or visions of the afterlife,

Means nothing. It has been recorded that pilots have had similar experiences after blacking out due to G-forces. These "visions" are undoubtedly the throes of an oxygen-starved brain. No god necessary!

why cant science explain medical miracles ,etc.

Just because something can't be explained by modern scientists doesn't mean it's a "miracle". It is simply unexplained! One day it may be explained. Which makes your god only grow smaller and smaller.

That big ball in the sky where did that come from.

I think scientists can explain how the sun formed. And look! They can! I googled "How did the sun form" and I found this:

How did the sun form?
We believe that the sun formed from a big cloud of gas and dust. The cloud was dark and cold, and its gravity caused it to fall together. The gas that collected at the center got hot from all the other gas falling on it. When nearly all the gas and dust had fallen together, the center became very hot and very dense our sun. Some of the leftover gas and dust going in orbit around this baby sun became the planets.

It's from an article aimed at sixth graders, so I hope you can understand it.

nothingness.???

Ummm.... I think YOU are the one who thinks everything came from "nothingness".

IT makes sense to believe in a higher being we call God then not too.

Sure. If you throw your intellect and reasoning ability out the window.

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Thank you.. for providing that response so that the rest of us didn't have to. Your patience is admirable, friend.

[Thor]

Thank you.. for providing that response so that the rest of us didn't have to. Your patience is admirable, friend.

My pleasure! I actually enjoy ripping apart the unsubstantiated bullshit that believers try to pass off as "the truth". We have to fight the idiots at every turn!

[sarah888]

IT makes sense to believe in a higher being we call God then not too.
Sarah[/b]

'God did it' only makes sense when you know nothing of the universe. You lack knowledge, the only thing you do know is religion. So yeah, it's makes sense, but only to you. You're blind to everything else.

" I dont know may be acceptable," it also may represent an unacceptable admission of at least potential error regarding the creation theory.

Another possible reason is that answering the question might lead one to the realization that their position isn’t valid, but that position plays an important role in their self-image.

Sarah

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There is only one GOD , Christians call him Jesus, the historic and biblical Man/God. As Christians we believe in the two main principals of the BIBLE , Faith and commandment keeping. If there is no God I have nothing to lose. If there is you guys got everything to lose. Look at the world, look at NDE, why do they all have the same dream or visions of the afterlife, why cant science explain medical miracles ,etc. That big ball in the sky where did that come from. nothingness.??? IT makes sense to believe in a higher being we call God then not too.
Sarah[/b]

If we became like you we'd already have lost the only thing that matters; freedom.
You're a slave to the idea that theres a transcendent tyrant watching your every move, your every thought and if he sees one thing he doesn't like hes going to burn you forever and ever. The fact thats bullshit doesn't cross your mind, you don't even ask for evidence. When you see someone recover from a fatal illness you instantly think "miracle" instead of wondering how it happened. Why?
Because you're indoctrinated.

That little voice of common sense asking the most basic of questions people naturally think of has been silenced for you. Silenced by years upon years of being crushed by the fearful superstitions of an age long since past.
You think you've got something to teach us? We already know your Bible better than you do. You think we haven't considered every question you've got? We have and still do. It never crosses your mind that maybe theres some questions Science can't *yet* answer, you automatically tag it up with "God" to fill up any gaps in your knowledge without so much as a logical explanation.

We've already met you a thousand times before, you spout your nonsense without so much as a seconds worth of research. How about you look at "Evolution" on wikipedia before talking to us? Even better, why don't you just type in "Why does Religion exist?" on google?
Scared of what you might find or just bigoted and lazy?

[b] I dont know may be acceptable, it also may represent an unacceptable admission of at least potential error.

Another possible reason is that answering the question might lead one to the realization that their position isn’t valid, but that position plays an important role in their self-image. Sarah

[/b the rapid growth of scientific knowledge and technological know-how should have these kinds of consequence is all but inevitable. Scientific and technological progress massively increases our power to act in the absence of wisdom, this will have beneficial consequences, but will also have harmful ones. [b] quote Nicholas Maxwell

Sarah