I don't believe in Ghosts but I have seen one.

[Phil]

"Being" anything in the first place requires cognitive thought and conscious awareness.

Which would eliminate patients in comas from being considered persons by your definition, it would eliminate quite a few elderly that have MAJOR cognitive impairment not to mention those suffering from Dementia or Alzheimers. So if that is your definition, you must have a very tiny world that you live in.

[Paul the Human]

The ability to think. The ability to feel. The ability to interpret perceptions. The ability to receive input from the senses. The presence of self awareness. The ability to form opinions. Etc, etc.

Without any of those things being present, we are left with most of a human being. We are left with, basically, a biological support system that is empty of the person (mind) it was meant to support.

I don't know how this might apply to the kid you're talking about, but you brought him up, not me. All I am saying is that, without a mind, you are not a person, but something that could be. I don't know why you find that point of view so insulting, but that is my point of view. I think; therefore I am. I do not think; therefore I am not.

[Phil]

The ability to think. The ability to feel. The ability to interpret perceptions. The ability to receive input from the senses. The presence of self awareness. The ability to form opinions. Etc, etc.

Without any of those things being present, we are left with most of a human being. We are left with, basically, a biological support system that is empty of the person (mind) it was meant to support.

I don't know how this might apply to the kid you're talking about, but you brought him up, not me. All I am saying is that, without a mind, you are not a person, but something that could be. I don't know why you find that point of view so insulting, but that is my point of view. I think; therefore I am. I do not think; therefore I am not.

I am not even going to begin addressing anything you said but I am going to focus on the sentence I bolded. According to that, a body is meant to support a mind. Sorry if you consider this insulting but that is a teleological argument.

[Paul the Human]

Without a mind, it is just a body. A biological, living body, sure... but not a 'person'. That is my only point. I don't care what kind of label you put on it.

[fuckass365]

Which would eliminate patients in comas from being considered persons by your definition, it would eliminate quite a few elderly that have MAJOR cognitive impairment not to mention those suffering from Dementia or Alzheimers. So if that is your definition, you must have a very tiny world that you live in.

The moment a person enters a coma, he loses his "person" (in the sense you're speaking in), however, people do recover from comas and are capable of being self aware again. I understand that my stance eliminates the elderly and others suffering from severe mental disabilities. It doesn't take away their humanity, just their persona. The difference in an object being something and being someone is as I've said before, cognitive thought and conscious awareness.

As Paul has just stated, "I think, therefore I am".

[Phil]

Which would eliminate patients in comas from being considered persons by your definition, it would eliminate quite a few elderly that have MAJOR cognitive impairment not to mention those suffering from Dementia or Alzheimers. So if that is your definition, you must have a very tiny world that you live in.

The moment a person enters a coma, he loses his "person" (in the sense you're speaking in), however, people do recover from comas and are capable of being self aware again. I understand that my stance eliminates the elderly and others suffering from severe mental disabilities. It doesn't take away their humanity, just their persona. The difference in an object being something and being someone is as I've said before, cognitive thought and conscious awareness.

Define cognitive thought. I mean what is it. Define what a thought is. To make this simpler, I mean physically what it is.

As Paul has just stated, "I think, therefore I am".

Not meaning to take anything away from Paul but he shamelessly stole (borrowed) that line from Rene Descartes and he wasn't referring to an anencephalitic baby, as a matter of fact, I seriously doubt the condition was known back then.

[fuckass365]

Define cognitive thought. I mean what is it. Define what a thought is. To make this simpler, I mean physically what it is.

I don't know how I could physically define what cognitive thought is. A quick google search yields the following:

"The cerebrum, or forebrain, forms the bulk of the brain. The cerebrum is formed of a large mass of white and gray neural fiber in the upper cranium. It is responsible for the higher thought to process (memory, judgement, reason), processing sensory data, and with initiating willful motor processes, such as voluntary muscle flexion. The cerebrum is composed of two lateral halves, which feature a number of wrinkles, and furrows and which are connected in the middle of the medulla. The cerebrum is descriptively divided into four sections, or lobes, named for the cranial bones, which they are nearest: the frontal lobe, the occipital lobe, the parietal lobe, and the temporal lobe."

You previously stated that he does not have a forebrain, which would mean he lacks those underlined functions.

[Paul the Human]

I used that quote to support my point that, without a mind, you are not a 'person'. Incorrectly? Perhaps. If an anencephalitic baby can have self awareness and the ability to think, feel, and receive and interpret sensory input... then perhaps that baby is a 'person' in more than just a physical sense. If not... if the mental aspect is gone... then they are not a 'person' in this context.

[Phil]

Define cognitive thought. I mean what is it. Define what a thought is. To make this simpler, I mean physically what it is.

I don't know how I could physically define what cognitive thought is. A quick google search yields the following:

"The cerebrum, or forebrain, forms the bulk of the brain. The cerebrum is formed of a large mass of white and gray neural fiber in the upper cranium. It is responsible for the higher thought to process (memory, judgement, reason), processing sensory data, and with initiating willful motor processes, such as voluntary muscle flexion. The cerebrum is composed of two lateral halves, which feature a number of wrinkles, and furrows and which are connected in the middle of the medulla. The cerebrum is descriptively divided into four sections, or lobes, named for the cranial bones, which they are nearest: the frontal lobe, the occipital lobe, the parietal lobe, and the temporal lobe."

You previously stated that he does not have a forebrain, which would mean he lacks those underlined functions.

Since you like wikipedia so much, how about looking up what it says under cognition and then look up what controls bottom up attention. You have no problem defining a person as something with cognitive thought but you can't define cognitive thought? Sorry but that just smells bad.

[fuckass365]

I don't know how I could physically define what cognitive thought is. A quick google search yields the following:

"The cerebrum, or forebrain, forms the bulk of the brain. The cerebrum is formed of a large mass of white and gray neural fiber in the upper cranium. It is responsible for the higher thought to process (memory, judgement, reason), processing sensory data, and with initiating willful motor processes, such as voluntary muscle flexion. The cerebrum is composed of two lateral halves, which feature a number of wrinkles, and furrows and which are connected in the middle of the medulla. The cerebrum is descriptively divided into four sections, or lobes, named for the cranial bones, which they are nearest: the frontal lobe, the occipital lobe, the parietal lobe, and the temporal lobe."

You previously stated that he does not have a forebrain, which would mean he lacks those underlined functions.

Since you like wikipedia so much, how about looking up what it says under cognition and then look up what controls bottom up attention. You have no problem defining a person as something with cognitive thought but you can't define cognitive thought? Sorry but that just smells bad.

Lol, Phil it didn't come from wikipedia, but would it really matter if it did? I always find it interesting how people can discredit a Wiki that has links to 50-100 credible sources at the bottom of the page, but I digress.

If you don't know that you're thinking, then what good is what you're thinking? The child is not a person. He is something (human), not someone, (person). That's the bottom line man and I really don't know why it bothers you so much. I've expressed several times that this holds no bearing on how this child should be treated and even expressed my sympathy for this family. As a father of a young boy, I can't even imagine what it must be like.