The Rules

[Trojan]

Made me chuckle. The need for respect and tolerance is highly emphasized; take the "No ending a post with 'God loves you' or 'God bless'" for example.

I disagree. I think respect for the sake of respect is not only a hindrance to the individual discussion, but to a discussion forum as a whole. Respect describes one's view of something; a personal perspective cannot be demanded, but must be earned. Honesty, to say nothing of Freedom of Speech, is a lovely thing. Note: Forum rules are nothing more than an example in relation to the concept at hand.

Your thoughts?

[Kyuuketsuki]

Yes respect is something that is (or should be) earned however I think we should respect other people and their views up to a point , the point (to me) being when I decide they no longer deserve it ... naturally that means that no religious or philosophical viewpoint will ever deserve respect from me unless it can be evidentially supported or rationally justified.

Kyu

[Trojan]

I agree. I think that respect should be given to the point of avoiding irrational or unprompted disrespect of something one is less than informed about, but little more than that.

[downbeatplumb]

I dont need to respect someones views to respect them as a person.
I may be anti christianity but most christians I've met have been nice people.(unless in preach mode)

[Edwardo Piet]

I don't respect beliefs. I respect individuals 'rights' (scare quotes intentional and deliberate, Kyu) for freedom and expression. I will not disrespect people who wish to express themselves differently, that I will respect. People's 'right' to freedom, I will respect. But beliefs are not something I shall ever respect in and of themselves. Nor non-beliefs of course. This just doesn't make sense to me.

Whenever beliefs are outside the religion matter for instance, they are to be scrutinized, and if someone believes something ridiculous they certainly aren't respected, if anything they're laughed at, or even ridiculed. Or they're perhaps considered mentally unstable. Why should religion be an exception? Why? It shouldn't.

Respect should be earned. And respects aren't even something you can subscribe respect to or against in my view.

If someone believes something that I also believe, I don't 'respect that', but that doesn't stop me from feeling good about the fact we share common ground. Just as if someone believes something ridiculous, I'm going to think it's ridiculous, but I don't disrespect them for it. Beliefs aren't about respect, in my view.

And once more, respect should be earned.

EvF

[fr0d0]

no religious or philosophical viewpoint will ever deserve respect from me unless it can be evidentially supported or rationally justified.

Yet you fail to produce 1 piece of acceptable evidence. This is a nonsense statement.

---

if someone believes something ridiculous they certainly aren't respected, if anything they're laughed at, or even ridiculed. Or they're perhaps considered mentally unstable. Why should religion be an exception? Why? It shouldn't.

In the case of religion, or specifically Christianity, you (Evie) simply don't understand it. So to ridicule it per se is surely the highest form of ignorance. Yes if the logic is easily refutable, then we can dismiss it. Ridicule always has to be the domain of those in the business of comedy.. ie they attract ridicule themselves.

[Kyuuketsuki]

no religious or philosophical viewpoint will ever deserve respect from me unless it can be evidentially supported or rationally justified.

Yet you fail to produce 1 piece of acceptable evidence. This is a nonsense statement.

On the contrary it is YOU and your ilk who cannot evidentially support your claims. That has been my position from the very start and all you are doing is trying to disingenuously turn the tables on the basis of absolutely no evidence or reason!

Kyu

[Edwardo Piet]

In the case of religion, or specifically Christianity, you (Evie) simply don't understand it. So to ridicule it per se is surely the highest form of ignorance. Yes if the logic is easily refutable, then we can dismiss it. Ridicule always has to be the domain of those in the business of comedy.. ie they attract ridicule themselves.

I don't think it deserves ridicule. That wasn't my point at all.

My point is in almost any other case when beliefs aren't based on evidence, they tend to get ridiculed. Like if adults believed in Santa as opposed to just children, those who did would get laughed at. But it would be no more absurd than belief in God is (obviously not in your view - but it would be)).

I don't advocate ridiculing, I was just using an analogy. I certainly don't respect religion, I think it's a bunch of nonsense. But I personally try not to ridicule if only because it's immature and ineffective.

I certainly won't respect something when there's no reason to though. And belief shouldn't be respected any more than disbelief. That just doesn't make sense. All beliefs should be analogized and tested.

The truth value is what matters when it comes to belief/disbelief to me. Respect/disrespect doesn't come into it.

EvF

[fr0d0]

On the contrary it is YOU and your ilk who cannot evidentially support your claims. That has been my position from the very start and all you are doing is trying to disingenuously turn the tables on the basis of absolutely no evidence or reason!

Turn the tables eh?

Answer the question please Kyu. C'mon... admit defeat - you'll feel better for it

[Edwardo Piet]

Fuck, we need Kyu in the debate forum and then maybe Arcanus to make it 'fair' lol. Because now I can't argue with fr0d0 on the matter of evidence and faith here, Kyu has taken over again

EvF