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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 4, 2012 at 6:29 pm
(September 4, 2012 at 2:41 pm)Minimalist Wrote: As I recall Dawkins did a good job of explaining the pluses and minuses of listening to adults who adopt an authoritative tone.
Just getting into Dawkins. The guy is a great populiser and a top notch biologist. Starting to understand why people get so geeked out about the guy.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 4, 2012 at 6:35 pm
One of the problems with scholars is that they seem to prefer to talk to each other. The handful that make an effort to cross the line and actually explain things to the layman are worth their weight in gold.
Dawkins. Finkelstein. De Grasse Tyson. Dever.
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 4, 2012 at 6:39 pm
(September 3, 2012 at 10:20 pm)Atom Wrote: The rationality of disbelieving the evidence on anything you don't want to accept isn't free thinking, it's mindlessness. Christians are accustom to condescension and verbal abuse from atheists, but at some point it would be nice if there were some rationale offered for rejecting the arguments given, instead of a barrage of arrogant declarations.
Thanks in advance. 
I would love to examine all the arguments of the Christians in this forum and give them my rebuttal. I can understand why atheists sound arrogant. It's because many Christians sound so stupid that after a while, an atheist begins to think that he's got to be really brilliant if all the Christians around him are so dumb.
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 4, 2012 at 6:39 pm
(This post was last modified: September 4, 2012 at 6:41 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I'm still partial to Sagan, massive shoes to fill. Not only would the guy "bother with the plebs" he could turn a phrase. Bastard even had a top shelf narrators voice and timing.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 4, 2012 at 6:48 pm
And boy could the man sing:
(Hidden so as not to throw the thread off track.)
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 4, 2012 at 7:00 pm
(This post was last modified: September 4, 2012 at 7:03 pm by Oldandeasilyconfused.)
Quote:The rationality of disbelieving the evidence on anything you don't want to accept isn't free thinking, it's mindlessness.
That from a Christian master of doubletlhink..
Can you say I-r-o-n-y?
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 4, 2012 at 7:45 pm
(This post was last modified: September 4, 2012 at 7:55 pm by Lion IRC.)
(September 4, 2012 at 4:43 am)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: (September 4, 2012 at 3:39 am)Lion IRC Wrote: ...Is this a later...new wine into old wineskins, addition to the Gospel?
As Jesus walked beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and his brother Andrew casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.” At once they left their nets and followed him.
Mark 1:16-18 (NIV)
Fishers of men?
What men? Jews? Gentiles? Samaritans? Roman tax collectors?
More circular reasoning. You're quoting Jesus to prove that Jesus really said that!
(September 4, 2012 at 4:00 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: (September 4, 2012 at 3:45 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: ...
I'm not quoting Jesus to prove Jesus said it.
Answer the question.
Is this a later...new wine into old wineskins, addition to the Gospel?
Your claim seems to be that the notion of preaching to all nations was controversial to Peter - the fisherman.
I'd guess so. I can't remember reading anything on it though. The vast majority if not all of what Jesus said in the gospels is likely made up from what I've read.
*sigh*
Why bother going to all the trouble of setting up an argument based on Robert Price about new stuff allegedly being added to Mark much later simply in order to try and justify the supposed ''controversy’’ about preaching to the Gentiles?
That was your original contention.
Now you’re saying…oh never mind…it doesn’t really matter…it’s all made up anyway..I dont care....etc.
Here’s some more stuff in Mark which shows that Peter had already been exposed to the universality of the Gospel message.
Do you think these ''controversial’’ scriptures were added later to justify preaching to non-Jews?
Mark 3:33-35
Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.”
“Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked.
Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”
Mark 11:17
And as he taught them, he said, “Is it not written: “‘My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations?
Mark 13:9-10
You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 4, 2012 at 8:08 pm
(This post was last modified: September 4, 2012 at 8:10 pm by Tea Earl Grey Hot.)
*sigh* Do you even know what begging the question is? This whole debate over the gentile mission in this thread started because I argued that instances of Jesus being involved with gentiles or saying to the apostles to witness to "all nations" we're not authentic because they're anachronistic. What was the evidence for their anachronicity? The fact that Jesus' followers and apostles act like they never knew Jesus said those things. This essentially means that anything Jesus says or does involving gentiles has to be inauthentic. And now you're using passages from the gospels to prove that Jesus authorized gentile missions when these are the passages precisely in question over authenticity! You're assuming the passages are authentic to prove they're authentic!
Here, learn something: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 4, 2012 at 8:13 pm
(This post was last modified: September 4, 2012 at 8:15 pm by FallentoReason.)
Mark 11
Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see whether perhaps he would find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. 14 He said to it, 'May no one ever eat fruit from you again.
And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling and those who were buying in the temple
"My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations"?
But you have made it a den of robbers.'
they saw the fig tree withered away to its roots.
Hosea 9
when I saw your fathers, it was like seeing the early fruit on the fig tree.
Because of their sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house
Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit.
@ Lion
Sorry, but it seems like one of your examples isn't genuine history. Mark loves his allegories and clearly we see here that he was alluding to Hosea 9.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: Where did the Jesus myth come from?
September 4, 2012 at 8:50 pm
(September 4, 2012 at 8:13 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Mark 11
Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see whether perhaps he would find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. 14 He said to it, 'May no one ever eat fruit from you again.
And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling and those who were buying in the temple
"My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations"?
But you have made it a den of robbers.'
they saw the fig tree withered away to its roots.
Hosea 9
when I saw your fathers, it was like seeing the early fruit on the fig tree.
Because of their sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house
Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit.
@ Lion
Sorry, but it seems like one of your examples isn't genuine history. Mark loves his allegories and clearly we see here that he was alluding to Hosea 9.
Since when are fig trees mythical? People living in Jesus' time would have seen them everywhere. Quoting Hosea to me is interesting and nice and thanks. But I dont accept that the appearence of the word fig in the OT somehow means they cant mention it in the New Testament.
I understand the point you are trying to make. But I dont accept it
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