Thoughts on homeschooling?

[Cyberman]

Has anyone considered the more social aspects of sending kids to school as opposed to keeping them in the home environment? What I mean by that is that school is not just for learning facts and figures; the child is much more likely to mix and engage with a larger pool of other children all from different backgrounds, than remaining at home and, in general, only interacting with family and friends from their own neighbourhood or whatever. In this way, they're much more likely to be exposed to people of vastly differing opinions. Whatever one's opinions of the state school system, which as far as I'm aware (and I'm probably wrong) only seems to be an issue in the United States, this has got to be a much more healthy environment for a young mind, surely? It'd be like opening a window and letting in fresh air.

I can easily see how such exposure to new ideas and new opinions might be seen as a potential threat to parents who, for reasons of their own, may want their child raised in one particular faith and only that one faith.

[Polaris]

I'm sorry, but that did not hold up where I went to school in California. Pretty much everyone held the same views until they left for college.

[Cyberman]

Perhaps it's different over there. Here we're pretty much an eclectic mix of individuals, often from different cultures.

It was just a thought, anyway, seeing as everyone seemed focussed on the academic aspects of homeschooling. It just seems to me to be a far healthier learning environment; instead of seeing the same faces day in day out, the child, although most likely preferring to group with a chosen 'clique' of schoolfriends, will still be mixing with the wider society as they progress through the school.

[Jackalope]

In my observations, homeschooling is rarely if ever about giving the child a proper educations and more about controlling the content that reaches the child, usually for religious reasons.

That is my observation as well.

Generally speaking, that has been my observation as well.

However, I do know a couple that homeschool their son. They're non-religious and very liberal, pretty much the opposite of the stereotypical homeschooling family. The mother is his primary teacher, and she uses all of the resources available to homeschoolers. She's intelligent, well-educated, I think fairly well-equipped for the task, and also introspective enough to recognize when she's over her head.

I don't know what their motivation is. I suspect it has to do with the quality of public schooling, and not for ideological reasons. Perhaps I'll ask when an opportunity arises.

They think they're doing "God's work." They can't see it as indoctrination at all.

Only tangentially related - but when I raised concerns with my ex regarding the manner in which she was "introducing" him to religion, she bristled when I called it "indoctrination". The word seems to carry a very negative connotation - even though the dictionary definition fits it to a 'T'. I've come to discover that (in general) theists and atheists aren't speaking exactly the same language.

[Whateverist]

As someone who teaches in a very good public school I am, not surprisingly, a fan. Specifically I can only get excited for the job if I think I have a chance to advocate for, inspire and guide kids whose home environment may not be equipped to do that as well. I like the feeling of being in it together as a community, not just promoting the best interests of me and mine in a dog eat dog world. For that reason I would never teach in a private school or a charter school where skimming allows the better off to hog resources.

I see a lot in what we do which would be hard to duplicate for a single family, but then, I don't deny that a very good one-on-one experience with the right adult which caters only to junior probably does have the capacity to enable him to advance academically more than he might otherwise. The social dimension probably doesn't have to be worse at home, but without making the effort it doesn't seem as rich in possibility. Of course, at some schools that possibility includes gang activity so an ineffective school may be a bigger negative socially than at home. Avoiding a gang infested school would always be a good reason to home school for the qualified, but I would always prefer to bring my advocacy as a parent to a public school that serves the entire community.

People in my family who home school do so to control their kids non-church contacts. I don't think that motivation can ever be a positive for the kid, though the control freak parents obviously like it fine.

[A Theist]

As someone who teaches in a very good public school I am, not surprisingly, a fan. Specifically I can only get excited for the job if I think I have a chance to advocate for, inspire and guide kids whose home environment may not be equipped to do that as well. I like the feeling of being in it together as a community, not just promoting the best interests of me and mine in a dog eat dog world. For that reason I would never teach in a private school or a charter school where skimming allows the better off to hog resources.

I see a lot in what we do which would be hard to duplicate for a single family, but then, I don't deny that a very good one-on-one experience with the right adult which caters only to junior probably does have the capacity to enable him to advance academically more than he might otherwise. The social dimension probably doesn't have to be worse at home, but without making the effort it doesn't seem as rich in possibility. Of course, at some schools that possibility includes gang activity so an ineffective school may be a bigger negative socially than at home. Avoiding a gang infested school would always be a good reason to home school for the qualified, but I would always prefer to bring my advocacy as a parent to a public school that serves the entire community.

People in my family who home school do so to control their kids non-church contacts. I don't think that motivation can ever be a positive for the kid, though the control freak parents obviously like it fine.

Hmmmm...you want to talk skimming? It's maintaining the high costs of teachers unions contracts that's breaking the bank in the school districts. In our particular school district salaries and benefits packages eat up better than 80% of it's expenditures.
Our district's total revenues are are nearly $218,000,000, but the expenditures to maintain teachers union contracts and other staffing is better than $156,000,000. The average annual salary for a teacher in our district is $20,000 higher than the average annual salary of the taxpayer who supports them. Administrators and teachers in the public education sector make a heck of a lot more by way salaries and benefits than those administrators and teachers in private schools and charter schools. The school superintendent in our district has a five year contract that's worth $1,000,000, and the taxpayers in our district has an average salary that is far lower than national median income. One school district in our county, (the largest of our 16 county school districts) got in a bit of hot water this year when it was found that it had falsified student attendance numbers in order to scam the state for school funding money. School boards now use tactics, holding kids hostage, that threaten to eliminate school sports and other extra-curricular activities, including busing, to extort votes in order to pass school tax levies. It's no longer about the kids in public education anymore, it's more about the paycheck and benefits packages.

[The Grand Nudger]

OH NOES! Paying teachers is eating up your districts educational budget! LOL, I wish every district had this "problem".

Should we adjust the salary of doctors or engineers to adjust for the local average A Theist, is there something inherently wrong when either of these professionals earn wages much higher than the local average (if not then why does it bear mention in the case of teachers)? Let's not forget that you actually have to spend some time in college to be a teacher, if we want people to become educators when they could just as easily get a degree in the business, engineering, or medical fields we have to make the compensation competitive (which it is not btw). That -some- private educators make less than public educators isn't surprising bud, a private school is business. That business is most likely -not- in the business of making it's employees money.......

(teachers unions can be a pain in the ass for alot of reasons, so I'm told (by teachers, no less), but trying to get teachers paid - probably not the best example.)

[Whateverist]

Rhythm pretty much covered what I would say, A.T. about your objections. Is that $20,000 annual salary difference just between working adults regardless of educational requirements .. or does that include those unable to find work? I hate to ask but the truth is teachers are not paid particularly well given the level of preparation required. In most of my social circles I am but a po boy by comparison with what my friends take home.

Knowing that you are a republican, I feel I must point out a possibility which may be hiding in your blind spot. Perhaps the amount of money being paid out in salary in your school district is indicative of revenue problem? Hopefully you are taking in enough to compete for decent teachers. Having been around a while I can tell you there is enormous disparity in talent and energy out there.

[The Grand Nudger]

Exhibits A-Z of why I never pursued a degree or career in education despite it being sort of the family narrative. I do not have the energy to expend whatever talent I might be able to cultivate for the level of compensation offered. I can make more money digging ditches and (perhaps surprisingly) enjoy it just as much with nary a dime spent on a masters. OTOH, one of the educators in my family (who spent a great many dimes on her masters) is currently a receptionist at a hotel (and sometimes taxi driver)...again...more money, less heartache.

[greneknight]

What do you think of homeschooling? I was homeschooled from kindergarten all the way through high school mainly due to religious reasons. I'm not really sure what to think of homeschooling in general now that I'm no longer religious.

I must admit I find some people's notions of what homeschooling is rather strange. The idea that homeschoolers have no friends and are isolated from the world isn't necessarily true from my experience. Undoubtedly there have been a few cases like that but I was homeschooled in three different states and I never encountered a case like that but maybe my experience wasn't representative of the whole. I had many friends growing up, both homeschooled and public/schooled. The several hundred (maybe thousand, I grew up in Houston which is a large city) homeschoolers in the city I first lived in up to age 13 had many groups that met together each week, we had field trips (in my case the vast majority of the time to real museums, not always creationist places), many of us including myself went to a few special classes in subjects such as writing, or math. Our parents didn't teach us everything. We had textbooks for every subject in every grade. Even though many of our textbooks were done by Christian publishers, in subjects outside of biology or astronomy, it was just normal standard non-controversial things being taught with a few bible-verses thrown in that were loosely related to the subject. Some of our classes were taught and graded by real teachers. Like I took geometry and algebra in my high school years from a video tape series by some guy who worked at NASA. He graded our tests too.

Although not necessarily true for most homeschoolers, I had complete access to the TV and the internet. My whole family are trekkies and I grew up watching a lot of Star Trek. I think Star Trek is one of the influences that pushed me towards atheism.

I am a bit socially awkward. I have a hard time relating to most people in my age group but I have no difficultly talking to people older than me. Although I had several friends growing up, I have only one friend in real life now around my age and he too was homeschooled (but keep in mind I moved across the US two times in the span of 7 years so that didn't help in keeping friends). I'm not sure this is because of my homeschooling or not. It could just be because I'm a total geek.

I'm not trying to say homeschooling is great or better than attending a real school, however. Just sharing my experience.

(hope I'm not posting this on the wrong board)

I don't know a thing about home schooling. My preparatory school was a boarding school and so I was in an environment of many boys. I can't imagine not having a gang of boys to play rugby with (rugby is my favourite sport) and I can't imagine having lots of friends to talk to, to play pranks on, etc etc. Home schooling must be the opposite of a boarding school. I like life as a boarder so home schooling would be impossible for me.