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Thoughts on the scale of the universe?
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 RE: Thoughts on the scale of the universe?
September 20, 2012 at 2:56 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2012 at 2:56 pm by Welsh cake.)
While the size of the universe is debated often out of scientific curiosity, philosophically speaking, its scale is lacking in relevance to our lives.
 RE: Thoughts on the scale of the universe?
September 20, 2012 at 4:56 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2012 at 4:56 pm by IATIA.)
(September 20, 2012 at 2:56 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: While the size of the universe is debated often out of scientific curiosity, philosophically speaking, its scale is lacking in relevance to our lives. And so is most, if not all philosophy. So why participate then?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy   RE: Thoughts on the scale of the universe?
September 20, 2012 at 6:27 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2012 at 6:42 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(September 19, 2012 at 3:23 am)Dumac Dwarfking Wrote: Zeno...........paradox......... None is merited. I know basic calculus. (September 19, 2012 at 3:45 am)cato123 Wrote: For fuck's sake. Are you seriously suggesting that an adult human being in the 21st century doesn't understand the significance of the Cosmic Mircrowave Background Radiation (clue: the universe isn't infinitely large)? Uhhh, CMB only says the portion of universe visible at the current moment isn't infinitely large. It also implicitly says the if the CMB doesn't suddenly blink out during the next moment, then the actual universe must be bigger than the portion observable at this moment. But CMB does not says anything about just how much bigger the universe is compare to that which is visible to you at this moment. Inflation theory, on the other hand, does say the whole universe must be vastly bigger than what can be seen by the bubble of visible CMB, probably bay many orders of magnitude. But it does not say the universe must be infinite. One of the new twists introduced into cosmology over the last few years is the concept of dark energy. There are two possibilities of how dark energy could behave. The first is dark energy is a constant in space and time - Einstein's universal constant. The second is dark energy can vary with space and time - Physicists call this quintessence. If the quintessence interpretation is correct, then that means the true shape of the cosmos, even in principle, can't be determined by looking at its geometry in the observable space.
The problem most people make is confusing "the universe" with "the observable universe". The latter is what we care about most; after all, we can see and measure it. It's a common mistake to make though; nothing to be ashamed of.
 (September 20, 2012 at 4:56 pm)IATIA Wrote:(September 20, 2012 at 2:56 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: While the size of the universe is debated often out of scientific curiosity, philosophically speaking, its scale is lacking in relevance to our lives. On the contrary. Your personal philosophy plays a big role in your day-to-day actions. RE: Thoughts on the scale of the universe?
September 20, 2012 at 6:57 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2012 at 6:59 pm by IATIA.)
Just to put a few things in perspective, if you observe a star that is 100,000 light years away, you are seeing what it looked like 100,000 years ago and where it was, 100,000 years ago.
The assumptions astrophysicists make are based on complex timelines to accommodate this fact. Some say that the expansion was faster than the speed of light with expanding space complimenting the hyperlight speed and keeping the speeds of expansion within the limit of 'c' at the time of the Big Bang. (This fits in with some of my theories on dark matter) The two main theories are for a flat universe with an edge expanding into ??? and a curved or closed universe with no edge. In the case of the flat universe, you could never measure it because there will always be light traveling beyond the edge creating a new edge. In the case of the closed universe, any attempt to measure it would bring you back to point 'A'. You ?might? be able to measure what it was, but you could only guess what it is.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy RE: Thoughts on the scale of the universe?
September 20, 2012 at 7:02 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2012 at 7:22 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(September 20, 2012 at 6:57 pm)IATIA Wrote: The two main theories are for a flat universe with an edge expanding into ??? and a curved or closed universe with no edge. Me thinketh thou haveth no clue what is meant by a flat universe.  BTW, I can understand the confusion about the close universe with no edge and the notion of a flat universe with edges slicing like a pizza cutter into something. But just how did you imagine an open hyperbolic ally curved universe curve with no edges? And if the flat universe has an edge, what is the curvature of the universe at the edge?
(September 20, 2012 at 7:02 pm)Chuck Wrote:(September 20, 2012 at 6:57 pm)IATIA Wrote: The two main theories are for a flat universe with an edge expanding into ??? and a curved or closed universe with no edge. I do, but it was supposed to be a quick easy post and this subject is not really quick and easy. is a better explaination
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy RE: Thoughts on the scale of the universe?
September 20, 2012 at 8:14 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2012 at 8:17 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(September 19, 2012 at 9:36 pm)Polaris Wrote: Finite. The universe is no larger than the rate of expansion would allow. Wrong. Expansion rate does not set an upper limit on the size of the universe. Any sized universe larger than the currently observed part of universe, up to and including infinitely large, can be accommodated within the currently observed expansion rate. |
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