Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 3:33 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Do we live in a universe where theism is likely true? (video)
#1
Video 
Do we live in a universe where theism is likely true? (video)
I ran across this on TTA and Carroll makes some good points about what we should expect under theism and what we should expect under naturalism.

Any theists care to comment?



[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
Reply
#2
RE: Do we live in a universe where theism is likely true? (video)
Nice: "The only point of view under which fine tuning might be relevant is naturalism." So long as how things are remains the plaything of a being whose methodology is indistinguishable from magic, why should any parameters require fine tuning? FTW.
Reply
#3
Video 
RE: Do we live in a universe where theism is likely true? (video)
A certain type of theism dominates Caroll's counterarguments; I managed to form these responses.

Life's significance plays a minor role in relation to the universe, if we looked at things from a personal perspective. But enlarging the field of vision would ensure that other variables -uncountable; to be honest- should play a severe role. 
For example; the orbits of every planet, the amount of sunlight the earth gets; the density of the earth's atmosphere, the amount of waters on the earth's surface; all of this pours in the making of a tiny creature called mankind.


.God is obvious; we see his work every moment we look around. But our minds are limited. We can conclude a creator, some of us did at least, but to demand seeing God is Ithe ultimate insult to the reality of our own mind. Our eyes alone cannot handle looking at the sun; so no shame at all in admitting that our eyes cannot see the creator. 

.If the universe is not finely tuned to support life, life won't exist. God does what he wants; including the creating of humans inside a ball full of water next to a burning star.

.We can't change the conditions which we are made in. We can produce imaginary images in our brains; but we can never change any variable. The universe came with these variables; for example existence meets non-existence. Everything we create, think or make, is a subject to this domain we are born into.
Reply
#4
RE: Do we live in a universe where theism is likely true? (video)
God is not obvious.
He's nowhere to be fucking seen! Ever!

And no, the universe is not finely tuned to support life at all.
It is life which evolved to be finely tuned to its surroundings... You got it the other way round ...common mistake by most theists.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
Reply
#5
RE: Do we live in a universe where theism is likely true? (video)
If the Universe is finely tuned to produce anything, it's black holes.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
Reply
#6
RE: Do we live in a universe where theism is likely true? (video)
(May 20, 2017 at 9:03 am)ignoramus Wrote: God is not obvious.
He's nowhere to be fucking seen! Ever!

And no, the universe is not finely tuned to support life at all.
It is life which evolved to be finely tuned to its surroundings... You got it the other way round ...common mistake by most theists.

Life cannot evolve in a universe that can't understand what life is.
As an example; human life needs an environment. Without suitable environment human life would not exist.

Evolution itself is a process that gained authorization from the universe at hand. If the universe shut down the evolutionary route; life would cease to exist.

Cyberman

Quote: Cyberman wrote:

If the Universe is finely tuned to produce anything, it's black holes.

I think black hole are more of an alternative to how life could've been.
If the universe was tuned differently, my mind can paint a quite grim alternative.
Reply
#7
RE: Do we live in a universe where theism is likely true? (video)
(May 20, 2017 at 9:11 am)Cyberman Wrote: If the Universe is finely tuned to produce anything, it's black holes.

No, not even that. All black holes are transient in an open universe. Universe is finely tuned to produce homogenouly nothing at the end, but to get to that simplest of end state in the most laborious and convoluted manner conceivable, involving countless unimaginably elaborate intermediate states and products that serves absolutely no ultimate purposes.
Reply
#8
RE: Do we live in a universe where theism is likely true? (video)
@Atlas

So if the Universe was different, it would be different. Mind blown.

And learn to quote properly.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
Reply
#9
RE: Do we live in a universe where theism is likely true? (video)
(May 20, 2017 at 8:55 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: .God is obvious; we see his work every moment we look around. But our minds are limited. We can conclude a creator, some of us did at least, but to demand seeing God is Ithe ultimate insult to the reality of our own mind. Our eyes alone cannot handle looking at the sun; so no shame at all in admitting that our eyes cannot see the creator. 
So. . . you think we cannot notice God, because there's so much of God all around us that we are overwhelmed?

Nah. I'm overwhelmed by the existence of disease and death in infants. I'm overwhelmed by the number of religious killings, institutional rapes and other horrors that followers of "God" perpetrate.


Quote:.If the universe is not finely tuned to support life, life won't exist. God does what he wants; including the creating of humans inside a ball full of water next to a burning star.
Cool story, bro. Where's the evidence?

Quote:.We can't change the conditions which we are made in. We can produce imaginary images in our brains; but we can never change any variable. The universe came with these variables; for example existence meets non-existence. Everything we create, think or make, is a subject to this domain we are born into.
So what? We are part of a system greater than ourselves, and nobody denies it. We just deny that Sky Daddy made it that way.
Reply
#10
RE: Do we live in a universe where theism is likely true? (video)
(May 20, 2017 at 9:49 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Life cannot evolve in a universe that can't understand what life is.
The universe understands nothing, and yet life -did- evolve. So that one's untrue on it's face.

Quote:As an example; human life needs an environment. Without suitable environment human life would not exist.
Granted.
Quote:Evolution itself is a process that gained authorization from the universe at hand.
No, it's not. Let evolutionary theory tell you what evolution is, not the other way round.

Quote:If the universe shut down the evolutionary route;
lolhow? Flip it's nonswitch with it's nonfingers?

Quote:life would cease to exist.
Doesn't follow even if the above were true.  

...........wtf?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Greek philosophers always knew about the causeless universe Interaktive 10 1265 September 25, 2022 at 2:28 pm
Last Post: Anomalocaris
  Why is murder wrong if Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics is true? FlatAssembler 52 3739 August 7, 2022 at 8:51 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  On theism, why do humans have moral duties even if there are objective moral values? Pnerd 37 3088 May 24, 2022 at 11:49 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  The reason we live nessahanalita 2 375 February 8, 2021 at 12:34 pm
Last Post: onlinebiker
  Is saying "...so I know how science works." likely to convince people? FlatAssembler 29 2630 September 10, 2020 at 2:53 pm
Last Post: Angrboda
  How To Tell What Is True From What Is Untrue. redpill 39 3474 December 28, 2019 at 4:45 pm
Last Post: Sal
  Is this Quite by Kenneth Boulding True Rhondazvous 11 1478 August 6, 2019 at 11:55 am
Last Post: Alan V
  Is it true that there is no absolute morality? WisdomOfTheTrees 259 24372 March 23, 2017 at 6:12 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Is the statement "Claims demand evidence" always true? Mudhammam 268 30995 February 3, 2017 at 6:44 pm
Last Post: WisdomOfTheTrees
  What God is to the Universe is what your mind is to your body fdesilva 172 18374 August 23, 2016 at 7:33 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)