Greek philosophers always knew about the causeless universe

[Interaktive]

Greek philosophers always knew about the causeless universe

[Neo-Scholastic]

Please be more specific? Plato? Heraclitus, Parmenadies? Plotinus?

[Interaktive]

Please be more specific? Plato? Heraclitus, Parmenadies? Plotinus?

I don't know the last name, but it's logical

[Silver]

I require more information.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I require more information.

^This. So very, very much this.

Boru

[Belacqua]

Please be more specific? Plato? Heraclitus, Parmenadies? Plotinus?

I don't know the last name, but it's logical

When you say "causeless universe," do you mean a universe that is uncaused? By this, are you talking about a universe that has always existed, or a universe that began to exist, but did so without anything causing it to happen?

As far as I know, all the early Greeks thought that the universe was eternal, with no beginning. Some of them (e.g. Parmenides) thought that the original raw materials had begun in chaos, and gradually ordered into a cosmos. For these people, the existence of prime matter was uncaused, but the cosmos comes about due to causes. Primarily, the attractive force they called Eros.

Others, including Aristotle, believed that the universe had no beginning, but is very much caused. Here we run into a common translation issue -- modern people tend to use the word "cause" in a different way from the Greeks. For us, "X causes Y" means that because of X, Y begins to exist (or happens) in time. That is, it requires a temporal change. So when we hear that Aristotle very much believes in a First Cause, we may misunderstand this to mean that he thinks the universe had a beginning. For the Greeks, though, a cause of X is anything which is necessary in order for X to exist. It's possible that X has existed eternally, but is still caused, because there is something which must exist in order for it to exist. If the cause went away, then X would also cease to exist. 

So if you mean that they believe in an eternal universe with no beginning, then I think you're right. If you think that for them, the universe has no cause, then -- by their own definitions -- they would not agree with you. 

Plotinus, by the way, was a Neoplatonist. So he thought that the immaterial Forms and the One are eternal, and cause the material world to exist.

[Belacqua]

Where's VulcanLogician, by the way? He would enjoy this.

[Jehanne]

Greek philosophers always knew about the causeless universe

So what?

[Anomalocaris]

How did they know it?

Guesses by people with fearsome reputations but no practical way of know that of which they speak is not render even slight interesting by either the content of the guess or by the fame or reputation of the guesser.

[Interaktive]

There is no god
Universe is causeless