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RE: Why does God exist?
September 22, 2012 at 11:54 am
(September 22, 2012 at 4:02 am)Killman Wrote: (September 21, 2012 at 2:51 pm)Drich Wrote: God only knows.
Quite possibly the best worst answer on the forums.
How can we know anything of God unless He were to tell us? The Bible is the only book In which the God of the bible reveals Himself to us. The bible does not say why God exists, so the truth of the matter is, only God knows why god exists.. The rest is just empty speculation.
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RE: Why does God exist?
September 22, 2012 at 12:05 pm
(This post was last modified: September 22, 2012 at 12:06 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 22, 2012 at 11:54 am)Drich Wrote: How can we know anything of God unless He were to tell us? How can we know anything of rain unless it were to tell us
Quote: The Bible is the only book In which the God of the bible reveals Himself to us.
Not unless you can demonstrate that this is so.
Quote:The bible does not say why God exists, so the truth of the matter is, only God knows why god exists.
Add that to the list of things the authors of the bible had absolutely no knowledge of.
Quote:. The rest is just empty speculation.
How many of these irony meters will I need to purchase.............
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why does God exist?
September 22, 2012 at 12:16 pm
(September 22, 2012 at 11:54 am)Drich Wrote:
How can we know anything of God unless He were to tell us? The Bible is the only book In which the God of the bible reveals Himself to us. The bible does not say why God exists, so the truth of the matter is, only God knows why god exists.. The rest is just empty speculation. Good...
Now tell me what do you think is most likely:
- God wrote down the stories about him.
- God inspired some people to write down those stories about him.
- These people invented those things they wrote about him.
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RE: Why does God exist?
September 22, 2012 at 12:18 pm
(This post was last modified: September 22, 2012 at 12:18 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Are you sure that you want to know the kinds of things Drich supposes are "likely"....lol
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why does God exist?
September 22, 2012 at 1:18 pm
(June 22, 2012 at 12:21 am)Godschild Wrote: Haven't we be through this before? God says that no one can understand why God eternally exists. So good luck on getting a real answer.
Who said God existed by Himself, you'll not find that in scripture, even if He did He is all encompassing and would never be alone. So to answer your question, I could never believe in a existence that God was not a part of.
The ole "no one can understand" or "It's not for us to know"
Always a classic. (Although I have to note, not a real answer.)
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RE: Why does God exist?
September 22, 2012 at 1:27 pm
It's either he just exists, but there is no reason.
Or he exists, and there is a reason. And if there is a reason, I would say it's because he must exist.
I would say no reason at all is irrational. Therefore, the reason is that he must exist.
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RE: Why does God exist?
September 22, 2012 at 1:35 pm
Like most people commenting, I am not a Christian or other believer in god. I do think it's an interesting theoretical question though. Of course there have been so many definitions of god or gods that I'm just going to have to assume you are referencing the concept of god that is generally accepted by modern, mainstream Christians living in the United States or Europe.
In which case we have to assume that god has the attribute of eternalness. So I agree with some others that god has no control over his own beginning or existence. So he essentially exists for no reason. However that doesn't preclude that god could, given the concept that he is omnipotent, cause his own demise. In fact there is a very very tiny subset of Christians and Jews who take Nietzsche's metaphor of a dead god literally, and believe that god indeed did commit cosmic suicide at some point. Also there is a particularly interesting cult of Judaism who believe that god died in the creation of the world.
In which case the answer is that god existed to make us. This is a very self-centered view, a rather extended version of the view that earth is the center of the universe because that is where we are.
But in any case, god is imaginary, so it doesn't matter.
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RE: Why does God exist?
September 22, 2012 at 2:56 pm
(This post was last modified: September 22, 2012 at 2:57 pm by Undeceived.)
(September 21, 2012 at 12:33 pm)Undeceived Wrote: "why" is a cause question, so you're creating a paradox before we even begin. The only instance in which "why" would not be an investigation of cause is in a question like "why should God exist?" which focuses on God's effects instead.
Example (if you are skeptical):
Why are roses red? Because they were created/developed that way.
Why should roses be red? To please us/to attract bees.
As you will find, all physical objects work this way. God is not a physical object. He is out of our realm of experience. Any attempt to apply our universal laws to God will hit a dead end. God put his Word on earth to put Himself in our terms, to cross the boundary and communicate. But there's only so far He can go. Words like omnipotent and omniscient only just brush the ideas of transcendence and self-existence. (September 21, 2012 at 2:31 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: The "why" in my OP is not a cause question. I asked why does God exist as opposed to nothing. I did not ask "what caused God to exist." Then give any example of a "why" question that does not necessitate a cause. Why do you do anything? There's a reason. Tell me one situation in which you can have a reason but no cause.
(September 21, 2012 at 2:31 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: The idea that God is just a "brute fact" or "must have existed" I find intolerably strange. You're saying that it makes more sense for an incredibly complex, infinitely intelligent, and all powerful conscious personality to have existed first rather than just the universe by itself? The latter seems like a much more simpler answer. According to our universal laws, everything needs a cause--including the universe. Therefore a force outside of our universal laws must be responsible. Why do you disagree with this?
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RE: Why does God exist?
September 22, 2012 at 3:06 pm
Quote:According to our universal laws, everything needs a cause--including the universe. Therefore a force outside of our universal laws must be responsible. Why do you disagree with this?
Universal means everything, how can there be a force outside of everything? In fact "outside everything" is meaningless.
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RE: Why does God exist?
September 22, 2012 at 3:13 pm
(September 22, 2012 at 2:56 pm)Undeceived Wrote: ...
According to our universal laws, everything needs a cause--including the universe. Therefore a force outside of our universal laws must be responsible. Why do you disagree with this?
You're committing a quantifier-shift fallacy.
My ignore list
"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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