Why such controversy over prank?

[festive1]

I'm sure she was embarrassed. People do crazy things. Everytime the stock markets crash someone kills themselves. Did this person have underlying mental health issues? Maybe. Or maybe she's an immigrant supporting a family... Who knows? Do the DJ's need to face criminal actions? No. But if a teenager decides to prank an old lady and she dies from a heart attack, is the teenager culpable? Yes. Same thing here. I don't think they should lose their jobs, but I think the station is right in pulling them off the air for a bit.

[Something completely different]

Who makes a "prank call" involving a hospital?.......... twats.

This is a clear case of forgery to me. They posed as family members of a person in the hospitals care, and thereby gained privat information about that person`s state of health - and even worse - publicly broadcasted that information - which probably was a contributing factor to why the nurse comitted suicide.
I am almoust certain that if she had not comitted suicide, people would blame her for giving away the broadcasted information.

The two twats could have at least informed the nurse that it was a prank call and not broadcasted the information. And if it was live they should have known better - to not ask about the condition of someone in hospital whilest posing as a family member.

When one looks at this, whilest keeping in mind the sleezy and disgusting methods of tabloid journalists recently uncovered in the UK and the continuing debate on ethics within journalism there, one easily understands the outrage.

[Shell B]

I'm sure she was embarrassed. People do crazy things. Everytime the stock markets crash someone kills themselves. Did this person have underlying mental health issues? Maybe. Or maybe she's an immigrant supporting a family... Who knows? Do the DJ's need to face criminal actions? No. But if a teenager decides to prank an old lady and she dies from a heart attack, is the teenager culpable? Yes. Same thing here. I don't think they should lose their jobs, but I think the station is right in pulling them off the air for a bit.

I disagree. They both performed their jobs and unforeseen circumstances arose from it. The fact that no one could have known that would happen or would have reasonably assumed it is enough to remove culpability. If you are driving along using your car precisely as it is intended and a freak gust of air lifts you off the ground and flips you onto another car, you are not going to have your license suspended. Furthermore, you cannot be culpable for the state of a person's health. A prank is a prank. This prank was not even particularly harmful. No one gave a shit, including those who the prank was pulled on -- two of the most watched people on the planet.

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Who makes a "prank call" involving a hospital?.......... twats.

Being a twat doesn't make you responsible for a person's death.

This is a clear case of forgery to me.

You're using the wrong term here. Impersonating another person is not forgery and it is not against the law unless it is impersonating a police officer where I'm from. I'm not sure on the UK law.

They posed as family members of a person in the hospitals care, and thereby gained privat information about that person`s state of health - and even worse - publicly broadcasted that information - which probably was a contributing factor to why the nurse comitted suicide.

It doesn't matter. They were not responsible for keeping that information private. The people working for that hospital were. Let's face it. That pregnant chick's nurse is the person to blame here. She broke the rules and possibly the law. She was exploited in a prank, but she fucked up. That wasn't even the woman who committed suicide. Again, she just handed the phone over.

I am almoust certain that if she had not comitted suicide, people would blame her for giving away the broadcasted information.

They wouldn't, because she didn't.

The two twats could have at least informed the nurse that it was a prank call and not broadcasted the information.

Then it is not a prank.

And if it was live they should have known better - to not ask about the condition of someone in hospital whilest posing as a family member.

I'll be the first to say that the press goes too far a lot. They are douches to these high profile douches. The whole thing is a circle jerk of disgusting proportions. Does that make it illegal or even immoral? Nope. It's just stupid.

When one looks at this, whilest keeping in mind the sleezy and disgusting methods of tabloid journalists recently uncovered in the UK and the continuing debate on ethics within journalism there, one easily understands the outrage.

But none of that matters as to whether it was these people's fault. Suicide is a choice. Nothing short of blatant harassment and/or abuse can pass the buck on suicide. In this case, they didn't even harass the woman. They just asked her to put them through to another nurse, who then gave them private information. It's not their fault in the slightest. Again, they are doing something they people do all the time without the slightest problem. That something bad happened this time could not have logically been predicted.

[Something completely different]

You're using the wrong term here. Impersonating another person is not forgery and it is not against the law unless it is impersonating a police officer where I'm from. I'm not sure on the UK law.

But it is frogery if you impersonate another person to gain acces to private information - where I am from. And I am certain that it is where you are from to.

as to the term, here is a list of words which supposedly are the translation of "Betrug".
Choose the one which fits into your concept of using language:

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frogery der Betrug
beguilement der Betrug
cheating der Betrug
con der Betrug
cozenage der Betrug
deceit der Betrug
deception der Betrug
defalcation der Betrug
defraud [obs.] der Betrug
double-dealing der Betrug
flam der Betrug
flim-flam also: flimflam der Betrug
fraud no plural der Betrug kein Plural
hole-and-corner dealings der Betrug
imposture der Betrug
scam [coll.] der Betrug
sham der Betrug
subterfuge der Betrug
swindle der Betrug
swindling der Betrug

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They posed as family members of a person in the hospitals care, and thereby gained privat information about that person`s state of health - and even worse - publicly broadcasted that information - which probably was a contributing factor to why the nurse comitted suicide.

It doesn't matter. They were not responsible for keeping that information private. The people working for that hospital were. Let's face it. That pregnant chick's nurse is the person to blame here. She broke the rules and possibly the law. She was exploited in a prank, but she fucked up. That wasn't even the woman who committed suicide. Again, she just handed the phone over.

Hospitals are responsible to keep medical files under closure, giving out this kind of information without the patients concent is a breech of trust and illegal (at least here).
The only fault falling on the nurse is believing the "prank" to be fact.

Then it is not a prank.

Ok my definition of a "prank" is to also insure that the person on whom the "prank" is played on is told after the prank, that it was a prank.

I'll be the first to say that the press goes too far a lot. They are douches to these high profile douches. The whole thing is a circle jerk of disgusting proportions. Does that make it illegal or even immoral? Nope. It's just stupid.

If one requires (and publishes) privat information through illegal methods like fraud - then it is illegal.

But none of that matters as to whether it was these people's fault. Suicide is a choice. Nothing short of blatant harassment and/or abuse can pass the buck on suicide. In this case, they didn't even harass the woman. They just asked her to put them through to another nurse, who then gave them private information. It's not their fault in the slightest. Again, they are doing something they people do all the time without the slightest problem. That something bad happened this time could not have logically been predicted.

To state that suizide is just a choice is a insane and dishonest generalisation.
Yes in the end it is a choice, but the circumstances which lead to that choice are the more importent factor in such cases.
And in the case of a depressed person alot of things can "pass the buck".
She probably could have lost her job or would have been made responsibel for the breach of trust and couldnt coop with those circumstances - maybe she wasnt even depressed befor that or even after that - but the accumilating circumstances drove her into a state of panic - thereby no harassment being involved.
I dont know, after all no one can ask her, so I can neither say that the circumstances initialy created by the two twats are responsible for her death, because maybe she would have commited suicide anyway. But it does seem to me that she felt guilty for what has happened and therefor comitted suicide.

Alltogether, I didn`t claim that they were responsible for her suicide (because I know that I cant prove that), but I do make them responsible for gaining access to privat information through frogery.

[Aractus]

Call me crazy, and I may be going out on a limb here, but the nurse committing suicide might have a wee something to do with why the radio DJ's have been taken off the air...
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/08/world/euro...?hpt=hp_t3
Pranks=funny, cool, amusing... I'm not sure what you call it when your prank leads to someone killing themselves... Irresponsible?

A person doesn't commit suicide because of one event. Suicide is brought on from a combination of influences upon someone. It is never one single quantitative event.

Do the DJ's need to face criminal actions? No. But if a teenager decides to prank an old lady and she dies from a heart attack, is the teenager culpable? Yes. Same thing here. I don't think they should lose their jobs, but I think the station is right in pulling them off the air for a bit.

Two totally different situations. If you play a prank on someone, for instance let's say you're the teenager and you have a replica pistol - it's not even real, and you're driving and you point it at an unsuspecting victim driving their car next to you - they get immediately filled with fear and run the read light, crash and die. That's a direct result of a person's negligence. They had the ability to assess the danger of their prank and they were negligent. The fact that someone might feel guilt about something - when they shouldn't - isn't your fault or your responsibility.

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After reading, it is disgusting I think everybody who thought it was a good idea (i.e. Managers that gave the go head e.t.c.) should be sacked and the DJ's at very least fined a significant amount of money

The announcers were just doing their job - like a prostitute giving hand jobs. They can't be to blame for doing their jobs the way that they're expected to perform them.

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The woman who killed herself was just someone who answered the phone and passed it off (the media is confusing that fact). I have a feeling the radio show was only one of many things that weighed in on her unfortunate decision.

That's correct, she wasn't even the one who was "humiliated".

[Shell B]

Choose the one which fits into your concept of using language:

---

frogery der Betrug
beguilement der Betrug
cheating der Betrug
con der Betrug
cozenage der Betrug
deceit der Betrug
deception der Betrug
defalcation der Betrug
defraud [obs.] der Betrug
double-dealing der Betrug
flam der Betrug
flim-flam also: flimflam der Betrug
fraud no plural der Betrug kein Plural
hole-and-corner dealings der Betrug
imposture der Betrug
scam [coll.] der Betrug
sham der Betrug
subterfuge der Betrug
swindle der Betrug
swindling der Betrug

---

Wow. Those all have widely different meanings in some cases.

Hospitals are responsible to keep medical files under closure, giving out this kind of information without the patients concent is a breech of trust and illegal (at least here).
The only fault falling on the nurse is believing the "prank" to be fact.

And then giving away information about a patient over the phone. That there was a breech was her fault.

If one requires (and publishes) privat information through illegal methods like fraud - then it is illegal.

Irrelevant. We are trying to establish fault for the suicide -- not legally culpability for disclosure of information.

To state that suizide is just a choice is a insane and dishonest generalisation.

Take it easy. I'm not being dishonest or insane. You make a choice to commit suicide. It doesn't matter if it is ordered at gunpoint, you have a choice then between suicide and murder.

Yes in the end it is a choice, but the circumstances which lead to that choice are the more importent factor in such cases.

What about my statement said that circumstances are not important? You said I was being dishonest and then admitted it was a choice. Now, the circumstances of her suicide have A. not been proven to have fuckall to do with the prank and B. Would still leave it being a choice, either way.

She probably could have lost her job or would have been made responsibel for the breach of trust and couldnt coop with those circumstances - maybe she wasnt even depressed befor that or even after that - but the accumilating circumstances drove her into a state of panic - thereby no harassment being involved.

I'm going to say this one last time before I give up. She did not breach anyone's trust. She was not the person responsible for giving away the information. She handed the phone to another nurse who gave out the information. The woman who committed suicide was working reception and passed off the call. That is all.

But it does seem to me that she felt guilty for what has happened and therefor comitted suicide.

Correlation does not equal causation, in spite of what every idiot reporting on the subject thinks.

Alltogether, I didn`t claim that they were responsible for her suicide (because I know that I cant prove that), but I do make them responsible for gaining access to privat information through frogery.

Which is irrelevant to this conversation. Also, forgery is not the word. Forgery means to replicate an object, document, etc., with the purpose of passing it off as genuine. Dressing as another person is not forgery. It's called impersonation and is probably not illegal in the UK.

[Minimalist]

Since when do you blame the shitkicker for the company's problems???

Actually, Danny, I think that is the rule rather than the exception. The guy signing the checks always seems to get away scot-free.

Nonetheless, I agree with your basic point.

[Something completely different]

Ok, learning out of the last conversation, I want to underline that I will try to be less verbose and will even try, although I dont like it, to be nice urrrghhh.

I am aware that the conversation initialy within this thread was centered arround the question if the 2 "pranksters" were responsible for her suicide.
I simply wanted to add my additional opinion that by deluding the nurse by posing as family members and thereby gaining access to classified information, they were making themselves guilty of fraud, or identety fraud, or whatever fraud.
The question if that fraud was her fault? No she couldnt have known that she was being conned.

I dont know what you mean by giving an example and then stating that one has the choice between suicide and murder.
There are countless situations out of which a suizide can occure all of which include an amount of pressure put on the individual. The pressure put on that Individual - and the messures which could be undertaken to resolve that pressure - is to me the far more importent factor than the choice of suicide which resolves out of that pressure. One should never dismiss the circumstances which lead a individual to commiting suizide and concentrate on the "choice" alone. That would almoust be social darwinism.

Jet i did not conclude out of the given example that the pressure which lead her into commiting suizide was the built up through the actions of the two "pranksters". Eaven if it was, it is, as far as i know, not a criminal action. I only can assume that the pressure which mounted on her came through the actions of these two individuals but can only put the burden of social responsibility on them - but not legal responisbility.

And yes I agree she didn`t breach anyones trust and I am aware that it was a other nurse which gave away the privat information, but one can assume out of the resulting suicide of the individual that she eighter felt guilty or also had to face consequences.

These assumtions by myself do not make me an "idiot"

bottom line:

I think that broadcasting privat medical information of a patient without that patients consent is a breach of that individuals right to privacy. ( I think because I am not sure of the legal situation in the UK, but sure about where I live)

I think that by impersonating family members of the privat persons of whom they gained privat medical information in order to gain that information is a crime

I think that ignoring the pressure put on an individual which leads that individual into commiting suizide is morally wrong.
-
It would be like ignoring the fact that a schoolboy who hanged himself in the closet, bullied before taking that choice.
Or ignoring that that the man who shot himself had just lost his entire fortune.

Suizides are in most cases decisions taken out of desperation and not out of clear thinking.

But I must underline that I do not know for sure, if the pressure coming out of her decision lead to her suizide. And therefor "In dubio pro Reo".

This however doesn`t mean that I and others cannot assume that the pressure leading to her suizide came out of that situation, and tell them that they should have thought those actions over.

*
I noticed in the end that suicide is writen as Suizid in german but i am to lazy to correct that mistake.

[KichigaiNeko]

I want to know what the nurse thought she was guilty of to the extent that she would die/ suicide.

As for the pranksters, they are suffering their own mental torment (thank you world) and it is trial by mob Twits and Facebookers.

[LastPoet]

If the nurse decided to cap herself, its on her, the radio hosts pulled no trigger. If we were to ostracise everyone that somehow "shamed" another and the other suicided, we wouldn't have time to do anything else.

The only thing that bugs me is that all that shit over some woman being pregnant. I don't see all the media shitstorm over every woman being pregnant... Oh, right, she's a princess huuuuhhhh.