Suicide Prevention

[Brian37]

What can we, both individually and collectively, do to help people and prevent suicide?

I think the most important thing is not to ignore the signs, and not to ignore the problems that people have. Often when someone is depressed over something, and they open up about it, they are ignored and their problems are unacknowledged by others. That can understandably be a very belittling thing and also damaging to their already low self-esteem, etc.

---

Don't tempt people with the promise that if they commit suicide, they can avoid the unspeakable fate of sucking Jesus cock for an eternity.

Oh why don't you go fuck yourself, and when you've finished doing that try actually contributing on-topic rather than pointlessly lashing out at the Xians you loath hate and detest so much.

---

Most of all, we need to erase the stigma of asking for help with mental issues. Too many people see those with mental health problems as weak-minded, causing those who suffer to abstain from seeking help to avoid the negative stigma. There is also the perception that a lot of depression is "just in your head," and those that see it that way do not recognize it as a legitimate health issue.

Yep. Also those who do have problems certainly shouldn't be judged by others for having them, especially those who are supposed to be there to help.

---

Using homosexuals as an example, as one in four are likely to commit suicide, we are trying to integrate them into culture and give them equal rights and value in society. However, there is still a large group of people who don't think we should. In turn, they react nastily to these people and, about 1-in-4, it ends badly.

I'm sick of people here always making these things an "us and them" argument. Homosexuals have far more things on their plate that contribute to mental illness and ultimately suicide that has nothing to do with being "accepted" or "unaccepted" by culture. Drug use, STI's (esp. HIV) and depression are three very large contributors. The gay friends that I have had were never in any danger of me revoking my friendship with them because of their lifestyle choice, and I think there are many people who have much the same outlook as I do on this and related lifestyle matters. It's not up to us to judge others for their lifestyles, and I know I'm not responsible for oppressing anyone. It's the same with the friends of mine who use drugs - they know I'm anti-drug, and they also know that I don't try and belittle them or do anything against them.

Oh why don't you go fuck yourself, and when you've finished doing that try actually contributing on-topic rather than pointlessly lashing out at the Xians you loath hate and detest so much.

Right, just like we should not detest planes slamming into buildings for religious reasons. Just like we should not detest blacks being slaves or women not having the right to vote.

Now I will say this. We as atheists cant create a utopia ourselves anymore than a theist in getting all 7 billion of us on the same page. But there is nothing wrong with detesting an action committed based on the believers delusion and superstition.

There is a point in "lashing out" and I wont lose any sleep because Bin Laden is dead, or when an abortion doctor murderer is arrested.

But do not think that we as atheists should never verbally(VERBALLY) bitch slap any absurdity merely because it MIGHT make you feel uncomfortable or offended.

IT IS absurd and SICK to believe that slamming planes into buildings will get you into an exclusive club, 19 people believed that with very real deadly results.

"God Is Not Great"(How religion poisons everything) Christopher Hitchens.

"End of Faith" Sam Harris

"The New Atheism" Victor Stenger

If you have not read them you need to. This is not about one person or one event, this is about A NEED to keep delusion and absurd claims in check to reduce the madmen of ANY faith to reduce the atrocities humans have committed under the pagan polytheism prior to monotheism, and monotheism and EVEN the delusions of a utopian political state.

It is important to get mad, but that does not make us foaming bigots or fascists nor does it mean we should get even with people we disagree with.

But when you say things like this, it angers me as if to suggest in order to get along we should never offend others.

[Faith No More]

Right, just like we should not detest planes slamming into buildings for religious reasons. Just like we should not detest blacks being slaves or women not having the right to vote.

In this thread you shouldn't. Let's keep this to the topic at hand which is suicide prevetnion.

[pocaracas]

Why does anyone feel like taking his own life?
There's so much to live for!

As Stimbo said, it's much more complicated than that, but I understand that people that have never been in a position where they felt the need to kill themselves can't really wrap their head around it. Ultimately, suicide is an act of desperation. It's an act that is undertaken when a person sees no way of escaping the daily and emotionally draining pain.

yep... I guess I can't wrap my head around that.
Psychological pain is something I don't understand.
I've had my bad days, but I know that there will be some good ones after.
It's like the song says:

Behind the clouds, the sun is shining
Believe me even though you can't quite make it out
You may not see the silver lining
But there's a big blue sky waiting right behind the clouds

In my case, it wasn't something I ever thought I could even consider. After I dropped out of college I got extremely depressed, and then I ended up quitting my job. I was living in my parent's basement with nothing to do but to endure the painful days in a drug fueled haze. The daily experience of only being able to dull the pain wore me out, and eventually, I decided to take my life.

Didn't work though...

Good thing it didn't work!

[Brian37]

As Stimbo said, it's much more complicated than that, but I understand that people that have never been in a position where they felt the need to kill themselves can't really wrap their head around it. Ultimately, suicide is an act of desperation. It's an act that is undertaken when a person sees no way of escaping the daily and emotionally draining pain.

yep... I guess I can't wrap my head around that.
Psychological pain is something I don't understand.
I've had my bad days, but I know that there will be some good ones after.
It's like the song says:

Behind the clouds, the sun is shining
Believe me even though you can't quite make it out
You may not see the silver lining
But there's a big blue sky waiting right behind the clouds

In my case, it wasn't something I ever thought I could even consider. After I dropped out of college I got extremely depressed, and then I ended up quitting my job. I was living in my parent's basement with nothing to do but to endure the painful days in a drug fueled haze. The daily experience of only being able to dull the pain wore me out, and eventually, I decided to take my life.

Didn't work though...

Good thing it didn't work!

Yea, well part of that depression is our society selling life as a script. I do think education is important, but lots of times when people fail a class, it isn't that they are lazy or incapable of understanding the topic, but that it isn't presented to them by the teacher learning how that individual learns and adapting the topic to their style and mindset.

I know that I learn better outside a classroom when not under pressure. If I had to had read "The God Delusion" under pressure of a grade, instead of reading it outside a school on my own without that pressure, I wouldn't have gotten through it.

And as I said before, I also hate script thinking. Failing isn't the worst thing in the world, it is how we learn. And accepting one's limitations doesn't make one a failure either. Pushing people too far can and often puts them into positions they are not qualified to handle.

Also, just because one might not understand complex things about one topic, does not mean they cant understand the over all concept. Much like one can drive a car and understand the concept of a combustion engine but not know how to build one from scratch.

I suck at math and chemistry and struggled through it in college. But that does not make a god real or Newton's alchemy idea which failed credible.

Everything I have learned about skepticism and atheism since 01 I learned outside a classroom and that lack of pressure allowed me to learn it slowly at my own pace.

Now, if I took a class on the history of atheism, I'd pass with no problem because there would be no pressure to learn it because I'd go into the class already knowing the topic.

Liking a topic also helps learning. The classes I liked I did better in just like the ones I didn't like I had a harder time in.

Texbooks for me were my worst enemy. They did not speak to me, most of the time they are written by experts who fail to understand the reader in a classroom is not at the same level. You cant bring someone up always with sink or swim because people are motivated by different interactions. I did better when my teacher was not dictitorial and allowed me to question them and tell them how I learn best.

But since this topic is about depression, it still amounts to lack of understanding about the clinical and psychological reasons people suffer from it. The epidemic of not dealing with the amount of depression is our failure to see people as individuals and failure to give people the support they need, and not just pills, when they suffer it.

[Gilgamesh]

Don't twist my words. I like chocolate, but it's my choice to be gluttonous or not.

It could be a contributing factor in some isolated cases, yes, but it wouldn't be as contributing as you may believe. I know that I'm not the cause of that kind of problem (difficult though I know it is for you to wrap your head around the fact that I don't feel the need to stigmatise those who have lifestyles I disagree with).

I didn't twist your words.

Also, I have not posited that you do anything of the sort. Someone here definitely likes to make things an "us and them" argument, alright.

[Aractus]

---

Right, just like we should not detest planes slamming into buildings for religious reasons. Just like we should not detest blacks being slaves or women not having the right to vote.

Now I will say this. We as atheists cant create a utopia ourselves anymore than a theist in getting all 7 billion of us on the same page. But there is nothing wrong with detesting an action committed based on the believers delusion and superstition.

There is a point in "lashing out" and I wont lose any sleep because Bin Laden is dead, or when an abortion doctor murderer is arrested.

But do not think that we as atheists should never verbally(VERBALLY) bitch slap any absurdity merely because it MIGHT make you feel uncomfortable or offended.

IT IS absurd and SICK to believe that slamming planes into buildings will get you into an exclusive club, 19 people believed that with very real deadly results.

---

If you actually managed to utter an intelligent sentence I'd be worried that my perception of reality has suddenly flown out the window!

But when you say things like this, it angers me as if to suggest in order to get along we should never offend others.

Did I say not to offend others? NO.

Why don't you re-read what I wrote and stop twisting my words.

---

Right, just like we should not detest planes slamming into buildings for religious reasons. Just like we should not detest blacks being slaves or women not having the right to vote.

In this thread you shouldn't. Let's keep this to the topic at hand which is suicide prevetnion.

Exactly brother!

---

I didn't twist your words.

Yes you did:

Also, since when is a sexual preference a life-style choice?

Sexual orientation is not a lifestyle choice. And I didn't say that it is.

[Gilgamesh]

Sexual orientation is not a lifestyle choice. And I didn't say that it is.

The gay friends that I have had were never in any danger of me revoking my friendship with them because of their lifestyle choice, and I think there are many people who have much the same outlook as I do on this and related lifestyle matters.

What, exactly, is this life-style choice that is apparently made by all gay people, then?

[Aractus]

Wow. "What, exactly, is this life-style choice that is apparently mutual among all gay people, then?"

This has so little to do with the topic of this thread you know. Let me ask you a question - how many of your gay friends are/were depressed specifically because people don't accept them for who they are or for their sexual orientation? You seem to think this is widespread among the gay/lesbian community, right?

[Waratah]

Wow. "What, exactly, is this life-style choice that is apparently mutual among all gay people, then?"

This has so little to do with the topic of this thread you know. Let me ask you a question - how many of your gay friends are/were depressed specifically because people don't accept them for who they are or for their sexual orientation? You seem to think this is widespread among the gay/lesbian community, right?

Once again Daniel, nice dodge of the question.

1. You give a quote and change it. Was this on purpose?

2. Then you try the off topic excuse. You are the one who introduced "lifestyle choice". The question was asked with your quote in mind(My bold).
"The gay friends that I have had were never in any danger of me revoking my friendship with them because of their lifestyle choice, and I think there are many people who have much the same outlook as I do on this and related lifestyle matters."

Understand this Daniel, their lifestyle choices are not the problem here, you are. You say you do not oppress or stigmatise anyone, really.

1. All homosexual relationships are wrong, including married homosexuals, according to YOU.
2. YOU are against homosexuals marrying.

[Gilgamesh]

Once again Daniel, nice dodge of the question.

He didn't even make an attempt to be discreet about it, either. It's such an obvious dodge, I'd almost think he's trying to play into the apologetic stereo-type. I thought Daniel was a genuine guy up until now =/