Men & children killed & dismembered by an atheist.

[Cyberman]

Please point to any insult to which I agreed. All I did was ask you if you agree with Dahmer's (alleged) words and then point out, among other things, that you hadn't answered or even alluded to pondering the question. Now you have, so my point of contention with you on that score is done. However, if you honestly believe that you are being treated unfairly in breach of the rules, you have the same rights as everyone else to report it. All reports are taken seriously. In facat, you just wouldn't believe the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes, and all without pay.

Now to your answer:

Yes i believe him. and seen it with my own eyes.

Just so we're clear, this is you agreeing to Dahmer's opinion, real or not, that in the absence of a god to dictate our morality to us, there would be nothing to prevent us from behaving as atrociously as we might want. Yes?

[WinterHold]

and yeah, Ryantology, you hypocrite liar. What is this comment you made about the Quran verses encouraging killing ?
Should we muslims stand like sitting ducks in front of you & your atheist brethren,, waiting to get annihilated ?

I am not a violent person, I would never kill another except in immediate defense of my life, or those around me.

What's the comment I made? The Qu'ran openly encourages killing. I really do not care what sort of spin you or your co-religionists put on it: It is rife with calls to kill, murder, and torture, plain and simple. And, given the enraged maniac tone of your response, you're acting out every negative stereotype of Muslims short of actually beheading me or blowing up my house.

I do not hate any specific Muslim, not even you. But I hate your religion. It is cruel, regressive, murderous and is, without a doubt, the biggest human threat to human civilization in existence today. You don't like that? Tough tits. It is what it is. You may note I say many of the same things about Christianity, but Islam is even worse.

But it's you, you sick pig, who twist the verses without even knowing what they mean, taking them not from Islamic interpreted sources, but from your own sick atheist hating sources.

Oink.

Please tell me how commands to 'melt the flesh off their bellies' actually means something nice and happy and totally not about torture.

I'm not here right now for god, the Quran actually forbids me to continue religious debates after such level, I'm here right now (for me).

and "fuck your god" is a statement that is hateful, offensive to me & my believe. I think if I replaced god with "father/mother/you", it would be a direct personal attack.

You're a hater, keep living in denial.

---

To zone, more links that might open his mind a little bit
http://www.bestgore.com/documentary/the-...ull-movie/
http://www.bestgore.com/execution/execut...ire-squad/
http://www.bestgore.com/burn-victim/8-ye...ghanistan/
http://www.bestgore.com/murder/dead-chil...ghanistan/

Do you want more ?
Maybe then you'll understand why somebody is ready to crash a plane into american buildings.

Open up the links. They have every brutal untold detail. Maybe then you'll know why muslims are blowing themselves up at any american they see.

---

Please point to any insult to which I agreed. All I did was ask you if you agree with Dahmer's (alleged) words and then point out, among other things, that you hadn't answered or even alluded to pondering the question. Now you have, so my point of contention with you on that score is done. However, if you honestly believe that you are being treated unfairly in breach of the rules, you have the same rights as everyone else to report it. All reports are taken seriously. In facat, you just wouldn't believe the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes, and all without pay.

Now to your answer:

Yes i believe him. and seen it with my own eyes.

Just so we're clear, this is you agreeing to Dahmer's opinion, real or not, that in the absence of a god to dictate our morality to us, there would be nothing to prevent us from behaving as atrociously as we might want. Yes?

I didn't avoid answering, I simply had 4 pages full of different thoughts & insults which I had to read, think about & then provide my answer.

Your comment came after I decided to not discuss believes with atheists anymore. Which is then I stayed off for almost a day. I didn't run away from answering.

And precisely, yes, I do believe in that, but unlike many atheists I don't generalize on everybody.

An evil person would not wait each time for believe to hold him/her from doing the bad thing, but sometimes that believe influence the acts of that person, in a variable sense, sometimes it's huge, sometimes it's little, sometimes non-existent.

But it works differently, when it comes to religion or atheism
Religion has constraints.
Atheism has no constraints.

You imagine what can happen in times of crisis. Would a person without constraints, acts the same as a person who has constraints ?

Some acts are natural & depends on the person, but some other -as I stated above- are influenced by the believe.
If your son is dying from hunger, would you kill somebody else to feed him ?

It's all up to your constraints at that level, an atheist is more easier to turn into instinct.
A religious person -who believes in fairy tales- might think twice.

[Cyberman]

There was no need for all those caveats and conditions; it's enough to clarify that you are in agreement with my restating of Dahmer's words. Fine.

So, in summary, you do believe that without a god there's nothing to stop us running around and doing whatever we like. Jeffrey Dahmer, as you pointed out, apparently believed the same thing.This makes you different from Dahmer - how, exactly? Remember that your point has been that belief means that one of you a godless atheist, while the other is a god-fearing muslim.

[WinterHold]

There was no need for all those caveats and conditions; it's enough to clarify that you are in agreement with my restating of Dahmer's words. Fine.

So, in summary, you do believe that without a god there's nothing to stop us running around and doing whatever we like. Jeffrey Dahmer, as you pointed out, apparently believed the same thing.This makes you different from Dahmer - how, exactly? Remember that your point has been that belief means that one of you a godless atheist, while the other is a god-fearing muslim.

Nice maneuver, I doubted before you even write your comment that you want to compare me to a serial killer
you want to make me the serial killer.

Nice maneuver, really, but here is a question for you :

Who's the real serial killer who actually killed ?
me or the atheist Dahmer ?

Until you answer with a yes or no, here's my comment so you can read it again

And precisely, yes, I do believe in that, but unlike many atheists I don't generalize on everybody.

[Annik]

Are you really going to say you don't generalize while generalizing?

[Cyberman]

I wasn't trying to accuse anyone of being a serial killer. To the contrary, I was pointing out the hypocrisy in painting one person as a godless atheist with the potential to kill based on their (allegedly) expressed opinion on what they could get away with doing in the absence of an inhibiting god, while simultaneously painting oneself as a morally self-righteous person of faith when holding exactly the same opinion and interpretation of it. If I may rephrase my question, as I can see it could have been misleading, that makes Jeffrey Dahmer an atheist - how? And if it's your continued contention that it does, it makes you not an atheist - how?

[WinterHold]

I wasn't trying to accuse anyone of being a serial killer. To the contrary, I was pointing out the hypocrisy in painting one person as a godless atheist with the potential to kill based on their (allegedly) expressed opinion on what they could get away with doing in the absence of an inhibiting god, while simultaneously painting oneself as a morally self-righteous person of faith when holding exactly the same opinion and interpretation of it. If I may rephrase my question, as I can see it could have been misleading, that makes Jeffrey Dahmer an atheist - how? And if it's your continued contention that it does, it makes you not an atheist - how?

Never heard about words like "more prone" ?
Atheism makes a certain person more prone to submit to instinct more than religious people.
You can also say that atheism mixed with another ideology is what makes atheism not dangerous to society.

To answer you adjusted question, Dahmer believed in atheism without an ideology, I thought atheism alone was our point of discussion, not atheism mixed with other ideologies to force constraints.

Believing in god alone without religion would mean a similar thing.A person like that is also dangerous -mongols are my example- they believed in god, but without any kind of ideology which might make that believe within limits.

Don't mix things with each other, we're talking about atheism alone, which most people here think it's an ideology enough to raise a country.

Atheism alone is as dangerous as anarchy.

and not being an ideology, it's almost impossible to compare with religion. It's more healthy to compare atheism with Theism, not a certain religion.
A believe confronting a believe, but a believe (atheism) fighting a Theist ideology (like islam) is something totally else, not even comparable.

Most atheists today have a national ideology, which why most discussions here get mixed with politics, feelings of personal hate (people like zone, who obviously hates islam because of 9/11), ...etc, most of you don't even debate from an atheistic pov, it's always mixed with something else.

So please, stimbo, how can I answer your question without knowing what kind of atheist you are ?

A pure atheist without an ideology would probably be more & more prone to foul acts, more than any other person.

[Cyberman]

Atheism is the lack of belief in god/s, deities, and other assorted character. That's it. There is no ideology involved with atheism, and any ideology which people use to justify any actions are not atheism. Thus atheism is no more dangerous than a lack of hair, or a preference for chocolate ice cream over an intolerance for pistachio. If you want to discuss ideologies as motivators for hatred and murder, don't do it in the atheism subforum. After all, it makes just as much sense as discussing baseball in a forum devoted to bakery.

---

I notice you still didn't acknowledge whether Dahmer was a man of faith like you or you are an atheist like him by dint of you holding the exact same opinion.

[Annik]

Stimbo, he needs to justify this hate for some reason. That's what this is about.

[WinterHold]

Atheism is the lack of belief in god/s, deities, and other assorted character. That's it. There is no ideology involved with atheism, and any ideology which people use to justify any actions are not atheism. Thus atheism is no more dangerous than a lack of hair, or a preference for chocolate ice cream over an intolerance for pistachio. If you want to discuss ideologies as motivators for hatred and murder, don't do it in the atheism subforum. After all, it makes just as much sense as discussing baseball in a forum devoted to bakery.

---

I notice you still didn't acknowledge whether Dahmer was a man of faith like you or you are an atheist like him by dint of you holding the exact same opinion.

Stimbo, what makes up a person ?

If you believe in god, you'll pick up a religion.
If you don't believe in god, you'll pick up a different ideology other than religion.

Then if you're just an atheist, your action would be either to go akimbo like Dahmer, or pick up an ideology to govern your life even if that ideology is your own invention, if that's the case, then it was influenced by another ideology. How do you differentiate between what is right & what is wrong without laws & ideologies ?

I notice you still didn't acknowledge whether Dahmer was a man of faith like you or you are an atheist like him by dint of you holding the exact same opinion.

What kind of question is that ? forcing me to two choices which are a production of your own mind, rather than the true possibilities ? that's more like an MCQ without the right answer.

Add the possibility that Dahmer reached a conclusion based on logical thinking that he did, which I agree on, it doesn't mean I'm an atheist, it doesn't mean he's a man of faith.
It doesn't mean I have the mentality of a serial killer, it also doesn't mean that he had the mentality of a muslim !

Just like agreeing with darwin on evolution, it doesn't mean I'm an atheist, it doesn't mean that darwin was a muslim.

So your turn now, to agree with you on a single thing, means that I must share your same faith ?