what being apart from the law means.

[Neo-Scholastic]

The only way to find the righteousness/atonement Christ offers is to love your Lord God with all of your heart, mind, spirit, and strength. To love your enemies as yourself (which includes forgiving those who have sinned against you, as you have sinned against God.) and to be faithful to what you have been given. This is what it means to accept Christ as your savior.

Spot on, brother, spot on.

[FallentoReason]

To love your enemies as yourself

Except when God has given the thumbs up to slay nonbelievers.

[Gilgamesh]

Of course I do. I see it regularly on these forums.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Except when God has given the thumbs up to slay nonbelievers.

I believe the correct term is "smite".

[Question Mark]

So ultimately it's not particularly relevant that anyone keep the law, one simply has to accept Jesus as one's lord and saviour to be saved? Is that essentially what being apart fromt he law means?

Being separated for the law means we are separated from the law as our only way to obtain righteousness. Separated meaning Christ made it impossible for anyone to follow the law and be found righteous before God.

The only way to find the righteousness/atonement Christ offers is to love your Lord God with all of your heart, mind, spirit, and strength. To love your enemies as yourself (which includes forgiving those who have sinned against you, as you have sinned against God.) and to be faithful to what you have been given. This is what it means to accept Christ as your savior.

Odd, I've heard that last statement before a few times, but it's always a little different each time.

That's beside the point I suppose. Anyway, how is it that you came by this information, if I might ask?

[FallentoReason]

Except when God has given the thumbs up to slay nonbelievers.

I believe the correct term is "smite".

How was all the smiting justified? It contradicts the Christian doctrine of turning the other cheek and the Golden Rule.

[Question Mark]

How was all the smiting justified? It contradicts the Christian doctrine of turning the other cheek and the Golden Rule.

Oh, because god said to do it of course. How dare you question god's word.

[FallentoReason]

How was all the smiting justified? It contradicts the Christian doctrine of turning the other cheek and the Golden Rule.

Oh, because god said to do it of course. How dare you question god's word.

How convenient that in this case "God's word" has come via a revelation from believers who controlled the state.

Cut out the middle man. Men were hungry for power. Just another day at being human.

[Ryantology]

what are you talking about? We were created perfectly and lived in God's will in his presents, until we chose to separate ourselves from Him.

"We"? I seem to remember it being two people, two people of childlike intellect who were easily tricked into disobeying God a single time by succumbing to temptation God intentionally placed in front of Adam for the express purpose of testing him. That sounds like a terribly flawed creation to me, to say nothing of the worst sort of disproportionate retribution.

Sin=Choice. We were give the opportunity for choice from the beginning. Even before we knew what sin was we had opportunity for choice (tree of knowledge represented that original choice.). Even so the simple act of choosing separates us from God. (As per the consequences of eating from that tree proved)

That is a separation of God only because God chooses to see it that way, and because he has to act like a spiteful fucker over the slightest possible transgression.

Sin does not equal choice. If God was to offer a choice, a true choice, he would have accepted that choice, whatever it was. He did not offer the Tree as a choice, nor did he indicate to Adam that he was free to take from it and eat if he wanted to. He was ordered never to touch it. That is not a choice, that is a demand.

You wish to consider sin a choice because that takes the responsibility away from God and places it on Adam. Except, Adam could not have been expected to know what would have happened. All that God says to him is that he would 'surely die', to a guy who has absolutely no idea what death is. God said nothing about banishing him, making him live in want and pain. So even if it was a choice, it was an unfair one.

God's choice is like an armed robber pointing a pistol at the store clerk's face and giving him the 'choice' to hand over all the money or die.

As with the garden, We have been given choice so that we may choose to be with God. But, like I said the simple act of choosing nullifies the choice we make to be with God.
Enter atonement. Now we have the ability to live outside of the rules of "tot-ism" and can still obtain the righteousness needed to spend eternity with the one we choose to be with.

Why didn't God choose not to let people atone for thousands of years? Everything about this being is arbitrary.

Again, we are supposed to 'atone' for things that are only sins because God arbitrarily decided they should be. There is nothing of less value than an arbitrary rule. It is not about being good or righteous. It is about doing as you are told. It is about being a mindless, heartless sheep. God gave us choice, but any attempt to use it results in punishment. Totally malicious.

Being separated for the law means we are separated from the law as our only way to obtain righteousness. Separated meaning Christ made it impossible for anyone to follow the law and be found righteous before God.

So, God made a mistake that Christ fixed?

The only way to find the righteousness/atonement Christ offers is to love your Lord God with all of your heart, mind, spirit, and strength. To love your enemies as yourself (which includes forgiving those who have sinned against you, as you have sinned against God.) and to be faithful to what you have been given. This is what it means to accept Christ as your savior.

You should take the time you waste here trying to rationalize the insanity you believe and use it to love God. I think he might wonder what the hell you're doing.

...and whatever answer he offers will be convenient and in-line with whatever his religious point of view happens to be at the moment, which is to be expected, and which will get you no-where with regards to the issue addressed.

Rhythm is a more accurate prophet than any found in the Bible.

[Drich]

Being separated for the law means we are separated from the law as our only way to obtain righteousness. Separated meaning Christ made it impossible for anyone to follow the law and be found righteous before God.

The only way to find the righteousness/atonement Christ offers is to love your Lord God with all of your heart, mind, spirit, and strength. To love your enemies as yourself (which includes forgiving those who have sinned against you, as you have sinned against God.) and to be faithful to what you have been given. This is what it means to accept Christ as your savior.

Odd, I've heard that last statement before a few times, but it's always a little different each time.

That's beside the point I suppose. Anyway, how is it that you came by this information, if I might ask?

I read my bible.

Do you want book chapter and verse? (It's not a one verse here one verse there kinda of thing. It's entire books, complete chapters and multiple paragraphs of verses.)

Christ Himself set the pace in Mt 5 and in several key parables then Paul in the book of Romans cements the details in stone.

---

I believe the correct term is "smite".

How was all the smiting justified? It contradicts the Christian doctrine of turning the other cheek and the Golden Rule.

Christianity is a form of worship. "Smiting" is not included in any biblically based Christian doctrine.

"Smiting" was a task given to the Jews in certain instances.

---

Oh, because god said to do it of course. How dare you question god's word.

How convenient that in this case "God's word" has come via a revelation from believers who controlled the state.

Cut out the middle man. Men were hungry for power. Just another day at being human.

Actually the 'word' came from prophets who were generally sent to condemn the 'state' for it's wickedness. More often than not the Jews were the ones being 'smoten.'

---

"We"? I seem to remember it being two people, two people of childlike intellect who were easily tricked into disobeying God a single time by succumbing to temptation God intentionally placed in front of Adam for the express purpose of testing him. That sounds like a terribly flawed creation to me, to say nothing of the worst sort of disproportionate retribution.

And Now? are 'we' still so easily tricked?
You re-create that first sin every time you choose to sin. Even so this is not what condemns us to an enternity in Hell. Where 'we' find our condmenation is in ignoring the forgiveness offered for our sins.

That is a separation of God only because God chooses to see it that way, and because he has to act like a spiteful fucker over the slightest possible transgression.

And you know this how? Because you choose to see it this way? So if I have to choose a POV I believe I going with God's.

Sin does not equal choice. If God was to offer a choice, a true choice, he would have accepted that choice, whatever it was.

even if were sin? Oh wait! That is what attonement is.. It is the acceptance of the sinful not based on the merrit of their sinful acts but purly on the grace and willingness to do so.

He did not offer the Tree as a choice, nor did he indicate to Adam that he was free to take from it and eat if he wanted to. He was ordered never to touch it. That is not a choice, that is a demand.

If their wasn't a choice then whay did God plant the tree? Do you remember how God kept them out of the garden once they were "ordered" to leave? He set an angel at the gate with a light saber. (It sound cooler than flaming sword.) If there wasn't meant to be a choice then why did He not set this Jedi angel on gaurd duty at the tree of knoweledge?

You wish to consider sin a choice because

Because that is how it is protrayed in the bible.

that takes the responsibility away from God and places it on Adam.

And every swinging d-bag that was to come after adam.

Except, Adam could not have been expected to know what would have happened. All that God says to him is that he would 'surely die', to a guy who has absolutely no idea what death is.

So, now your a mind reader? you know the thoughts and experiences of Adam? Adam walked with God. Can you imagine to the info and sheer knoweledge Adam was exposed to for who knows how long?
Why do you assume they were children?

God said nothing about banishing him, making him live in want and pain. So even if it was a choice, it was an unfair one.

That was the defination of death. to be cut off from God was to die. It was like cutting a cluster of grapes from a vine. The grapes while attached to the vine are alive, the take in water and nutrients, live grow and develop. Once one cuts the grapes from the vine all of that stops, even if the grapes retain their shape and taste for a season, it does not make them alive. Their life ended the moment they were cut from the vine.

God's choice is like an armed robber pointing a pistol at the store clerk's face and giving him the 'choice' to hand over all the money or die.

I see grapes you see a robbery. In the end the death is the same. What God offers is another chance at life. If we want it. If we Choose it. He will reattach us to the vine.

Why didn't God choose not to let people atone for thousands of years? Everything about this being is arbitrary.

He did. what are you talking about?

Again, we are supposed to 'atone' for things that are only sins because God arbitrarily decided they should be.

"We" can't attone for anything. Only Christ could. That is why He had to shed His blood. We can only accept what has been offered.

There is nothing of less value than an arbitrary rule. It is not about being good or righteous. It is about doing as you are told. It is about being a mindless, heartless sheep. God gave us choice, but any attempt to use it results in punishment. Totally malicious.

That is why we have been given this life. To make that determination. to view what God has done as selfless or selfish, and then decide where we want to spend eternity in relation to this God.

So, God made a mistake that Christ fixed?

The Tree of knoweledged was placed in the Garden before Adam was placed there. That means "Choice" was apart of the Equasion long before any desisions were made. (Not a mistake, the placement of the tree of knoweledge means it was apart of the orginal plan.)

You should take the time you waste here trying to rationalize the insanity you believe and use it to love God. I think he might wonder what the hell you're doing.

I'm sure He's read the bible..