The atheists want your children (according to K. Ham)

[John V]

Can't recall if I've seen it on this forum, but I've seen atheists who believe that bringing up a child in a religion is child abuse. You can take children away from abusive parents. So, I disagree that his saying atheists want your children is incorrect.

Not all atheists, mind you - when I've seen this argument, there have always been atheists who defended a parent's right to bring up a child in a religion.

[Minimalist]

Can't recall if I've seen it on this forum, but I've seen atheists who believe that bringing up a child in a religion is child abuse.

It's a question of degree.

When you get into a 'jesus camp' kind of propagandizing then a line has been crossed.

[John V]

What is "a 'jesus camp' kind of propagandizing"?

[downbeatplumb]

Have you not seen the "jesus camp documentary"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RNfL6IVWCE

[John V]

Have you not seen the "jesus camp documentary"?

No. Is this abusive? Should these children be taken from their parents?

[Esquilax]

Have you not seen the "jesus camp documentary"?

No. Is this abusive? Should these children be taken from their parents?

That's a hard line to toe. To be honest, I'm not so sure I have a concrete position on it; I'd like it if there was some way to get these kinds of parents to tone it the fuck down, or at least to get people to see that religion should be a freely given choice, not some nail that needs to be pounded into the brains of children. Is it abusive? Yes. Should the kids be taken from their parents? No, maybe not, but I sure as fuck would like to see outright abusive traps like jesus camp shut all the way down.

[John V]

Is it abusive? Yes. Should the kids be taken from their parents? No, maybe not,

OK, that's one maybe not. Anyone else?

[Esquilax]

Is it abusive? Yes. Should the kids be taken from their parents? No, maybe not,

OK, that's one maybe not. Anyone else?

Oh, come on, don't misrepresent my entirely noncommittal answer.

[Mister Agenda]

I was raised a Pentecostal, back then you learned evolution and added a little caveat about believing in literal biblical creation. This idea that you shouldn't even know what the science says is kind of new. And in my opinion, more likely to make their children atheists in the long run. No one likes finding out they've been deliberately kept ignorant.

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Have you not seen the "jesus camp documentary"?

No. Is this abusive? Should these children be taken from their parents?

Abusive by the parents? I'd say no. They're doing the best they know how by their children, and it's not like they're denying them medical care or neglecting their education entirely. It's not physical or emotional abuse, it's just an honest failure to ensure their children receive an adequate education.

An evasion on the part of the school to meet its responsibility to teach what children will need to know to pass science standards in high school, yes.

[Cyberman]

Can't recall if I've seen it on this forum, but I've seen atheists who believe that bringing up a child in a religion is child abuse. You can take children away from abusive parents. So, I disagree that his saying atheists want your children is incorrect.

Just because a situation can be constructed in which you "can" do something, it doesn't follow that you must do that thing. Child abuse is not a one-size-fits-all deal and there is a whole spectrum of degrees of abuse even within the separately defined categories. Consequently there are other avenues beside removing children from parents; supportive counselling, for one, for both parent and child.

So I disagree that you saying his saying atheists want your children is incorrect is correct.