are vegetarians more ethical by not eating meat?

[ideologue08]

Why? What is actually wrong with that? Don't you like free BJs?

Why wouldn't I act like a friend is a friend after that? It's just a bit of fun.

No to free BJ's. ugh. I don't really get how guys can form a relationship with a girl who blew off like 20 guys. And how girls can be with a guy who's inserted his penis in pretty much every breathing female organism? That is the DEFINITION of disgusting.

[The Grand Nudger]

If you're going to bed someone, then how can they just act like a friend after that?

If I was incapable of being friends with someone after rolling around the sack with them how on earth could I have been friends with them before? I mean really, what would I do with all the folks whom I've slept if I couldn't even muster up the balls to be buddies anymore - lock em in a shipping container?

Maybe it's just me, but I'd say that a friend who badgers the witness for you is a pretty damned good friend.

[ideologue08]

If you're going to bed someone, then how can they just act like a friend after that?

If I was incapable of being friends with someone after rolling around the sack with them how on earth could I have been friends with them before? I mean really, what would I do with all the folks whom I've slept if I couldn't even muster up the balls to be buddies anymore - lock em in a shipping container?

Well, if you were in a relationship with them, and then the relationship ended, then yes, there's no harm in being friends. But I was referring to an agreement whereby both people are friends and have no intention of a relationship but also get a booty call from one another. That's what my beef is with.

[The Grand Nudger]

What you're missing, is that the arrangement you described could very well -be- "the relationship". I get that you figure it aint for you, but I mean, I don't see the problem.

[ideologue08]

What you're missing, is that the arrangement you described could very well -be- "the relationship". I get that you figure it aint for you, but I mean, I don't see the problem.

Okay, imagine that you have a girlfriend who used to be in a FWB sort of relationship. How would you feel, knowing that she has a friend whom she contacts regularly, but is also a ready-made booty call? How can anyone man be in a relationship with such a girl? Would you really trust her with what used to be her FWB? Could you even stand to look at him?

It's WORSE than a hooker, because at least for a hooker you have to pay money, there's a "cost" involved, no matter how small it is. But there is no cost with a FWB. She could easily cheat on you without paying a dime for it, and even worse, there's no way you'd know, because he's her friend, remember? Friends cover each other's back.

[The Grand Nudger]

Okay, imagine that you have a girlfriend who used to be in a FWB sort of relationship. How would you feel, knowing that she has a friend whom she contacts regularly, but is also a ready-made booty call? How can anyone man be in a relationship with such a girl? Would you really trust her with what used to be her FWB? Could you even stand to look at him?

I'm not sure I understand, she -used to be- in this sort of arrangement or still is? If the former, I was never the kind of guy who got high and mighty about whose thingamajig any of my love interests crammed into their hoo-hoo-dillies. If the latter, I'd just have to pass on a relationship with her. I'm not into three-ways. My best friend married an ex of mine, theyre good for each other, we used to go out and get smashed on weekends while he watched their kids. Why wouldn't he trust me? My wife's been known to go out and get hammered with an ex of hers as well (really cool guy, I'm a big fan) - I never lost any sleep over it.

I'd personally rather not pay for sex - it aint like there aren't tons of people giving that product away free of charge. Why would I care how many dimes it cost someone to cheat on me, or who they cheated on me with?

[ideologue08]

Okay, imagine that you have a girlfriend who used to be in a FWB sort of relationship. How would you feel, knowing that she has a friend whom she contacts regularly, but is also a ready-made booty call? How can anyone man be in a relationship with such a girl? Would you really trust her with what used to be her FWB? Could you even stand to look at him?

I'm not sure I understand, she -used to be- in this sort of arrangement or still is? If the former, I was never the kind of guy who got high and mighty about whose thingamajig any of my love interests crammed into their hoo-hoo-dillies. If the latter, I'd just have to pass on a relationship with her. I'm not into three-ways. My best friend married an ex of mine, theyre good for each other, we used to go out and get smashed on weekends while he watched their kids. Why wouldn't he trust me? My wife's been known to go out and get hammered with an ex of hers as well (really cool guy, I'm a big fan) - I never lost any sleep over it.

I meant used to be in a FWB.

Yes, but the key difference is, she was your girlfriend before, i.e. you were in a proper relationship. But when friends don't make any commitment to each other other than sex, that's way beyond the pale. It means they could literally just continue to do that even after they make other relationships with impunity because they are desensitized to the idea of bedding your friend. Once they associate a friend with their bed (which is what FWB is), it's pretty difficult to trust them in a real proper relationship.

[NoraBrimstone]

Why? What is actually wrong with that? Don't you like free BJs?

Why wouldn't I act like a friend is a friend after that? It's just a bit of fun.

No to free BJ's. ugh. I don't really get how guys can form a relationship with a girl who blew off like 20 guys. And how girls can be with a guy who's inserted his penis in pretty much every breathing female organism? That is the DEFINITION of disgusting.

Experienced people are disgusting? I blew off waaaay more than 20 guys. I'm awesome at it. Would you rather have some frigid brigid who didn't know wtf she was doing blowing you off? Lame.
I much prefer sex with guys who are experienced, too.

[ideologue08]

I'd personally rather not pay for sex - it aint like there aren't tons of people giving that product away free of charge. Why would I care how many dimes it cost someone to cheat on me, or who they cheated on me with?

The cost of a hooker acts as a bit of a deterrent basically, that's what I was getting at. It makes the person think twice about cheating, "am I really going to pay 500 pounds to cheat?" etc.etc. It induces more guilt and could turn someone back from doing the act. But when they can just call up their FWB buddy Bob from 2 years ago and have guaranteed good sex (since they're used to it already) in an instant, completely free of charge, with Bob covering their back to make sure there's no chance they'll be found out, it's easier to pick up that phone and just cheat for them isn't?

[littleendian]

But I'm also realistic. Nature is nasty. The amount of suffering of animal-on-animal behavior is just abysmal. Not to mention the very nature of some animals that have their own taxonomy: parasites. Parasites cause untold suffering.

This is not a justification. Other's cruelty can never excuse our own. Man is not primarily part of nature anymore, he/she is most importantly part of a culture today. This culture is subject to the rules society gives itself, it is not based on the rules of nature, a good example is rape, which is a fact of nature but outlawed by society.

So, let's not delude ourselves, there's enough of suffering to go around - if only idiots like PETA would realize this, or do they think they can lessen suffering in how nature is?

We can minimize the suffering we ourself cause, yes we can.

I'd argue that free range animals have a better life than what occurs outside the fences with occurrence of natural predators ripping them apart.

I'd rather live free and in danger than a prisoner without great hopes or fears, my destiny set from the word go, to be killed in prime of life (old animals don't taste well).

---

Are you comparing child abuse and war to eating meat? Seiously?

Both are causing unnecessary harm and suffering to others merely for the pleasure of the perpetrator, however the one is outlawed the other is not due to an arbitrary line drawn by society between humans and other animals, and this line has no founding in reason whatsoever. Reason clearly tells us we're no special in our ability to suffer and if we desire to lead a life without unnecessary suffering we must also grant this right to all others who have the same interest. Everything else is highly irrational and unworthy of a thinking person.