Two excellent reasons to OPPOSE gay marriage in the UK

[NoraBrimstone]

I don't really understand what you're talking about. I'm arguing against the re-definition of marriage. The so-called "damage" to traditional marriage is the re-definition itself. I don't agree that same-sex relationships should ever be equated with opposite-sex relationships, if you read through my posts, you will see my justification.

Are you opposed to all the other times marriage has been redefined, including the one that re-defined it to exclude polygamy in the first place? How about the [/i]major[/i] re-definition of marriage that led to the formation of the Church of England? Are you a disestablishmentarian?

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In the UK, we do not want an endless list of permutations of different humans in a relationship all having a so-called "marriage".

Yes, we fucking do.

[ideologue08]

I don't really understand what you're talking about. I'm arguing against the re-definition of marriage. The so-called "damage" to traditional marriage is the re-definition itself. I don't agree that same-sex relationships should ever be equated with opposite-sex relationships, if you read through my posts, you will see my justification.

Are you opposed to all the other times marriage has been redefined, including the one that re-defined it to exclude polygamy in the first place? How about the [/i]major[/i] re-definition of marriage that led to the formation of the Church of England? Are you a disestablishmentarian?

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In the UK, we do not want an endless list of permutations of different humans in a relationship all having a so-called "marriage".

Yes, we fucking do.

I didn't have a say when the definition of marriage was being debated hundreds of years ago (even the citizens of the royal family of England back then didn't either but that's a different story). I do have a say now, thankfully, and I favour the status quo.

[Ryantology]

There was another poll done which shows 34 to 28 points in favour of gay marriage, those in favour of gay marriage have a narrow lead but all that matters to me is that my local MP voted against it in parliament and plans to vote against it in any upcoming bill in parliament. I fully back her opinion. We do not want something that is different to be labelled the same, same-sex relationships are not the same as opposite sex relationships.

And, yet, it will inevitably come to pass that same-sex marriage will be legal in the UK (it is already in Scotland). The margin will only grow and bigots will only live further upon them.

No. The reason I'm not trying is because I don't want something banned just because I find it "yucky". That's not a good enough reason. Nobody should be forced to change their lifestyle just so I can be happy. But the government should not be forced to change definitions just so they or a special interest lobby group should be happy either.

I fail to see even one reason why this should matter to you, and you have yet to actually explain why it does.

Most MP's in the ruling party are against gay marriage, it's those bastards on the left wing and especially in the coalition that are the problem. The left are going to win by a landslide in 2015 because the conservative leadership threw its base under the bus.

Yunno, that is the same excuse our right wing hate mongers use to explain why they got hosed in national elections last year. It's not because you were betrayed by your leadership. It's because your viewpoints are repulsive.

[ideologue08]

And, yet, it will inevitably come to pass that same-sex marriage will be legal in the UK (it is already in Scotland). The margin will only grow and bigots will only live further upon them.

I know that if the current govt puts forward the bill, it will definitely pass the Commons and most likely the Lords as well. But that doesn't mean that we can't attempt to stall it, at least until the general election.

I fail to see even one reason why this should matter to you, and you have yet to actually explain why it does.

Well, I can't really expect you to acknowledge or even understand any reasoning that opposes what you stand for. Sticking your fingers in your ears isn't how public debate is conducted in the UK, unlike your narrow-minded Senators, do-nothing Congress and stupid filibuster laws. Once a yank, always a yank.

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Yunno, that is exactly the same excuse our right wing hate mongers use to explain why they got hosed in national elections last year. It's not because you were betrayed by your leadership. It's because your viewpoints are repulsive.

Your right wingers are fucking nutters, they wouldn't win a single seat in our parliament. The fact that you guys have people like that in positions of power says a lot about you.

[NoraBrimstone]

There was another poll done which shows 34 to 28 points in favour of gay marriage

Hmmm... Let's take a look at that survey... Does the question you are refering to ask people if they support same-sex marriage? Let's see how the lovely people at C4M worded the question...

Q.1 Do you agree or disagree with each of these statements?
Legalising same-sex marriage is important because keeping Civil Partnership and marriage separate and distinct worsens public attituded towards gay people

Do you see how it's a different fucking question?

[Ryantology]

I know that if the current govt puts forward the bill, it will definitely pass the Commons and most likely the Lords as well. But that doesn't mean that we can't attempt to stall it, at least until the general election.

Stall all you want. It's only delaying the inevitable and will just make future generations hold you in even greater contempt.

Well, I can't really expect you to acknowledge or even understand any reasoning that opposes what you stand for. Sticking your fingers in your ears isn't how public debate is conducted in the UK, unlike your narrow-minded Senators, do-nothing Congress and stupid filibuster laws. Once a yank, always a yank.

You didn't offer any reasons to support your two assertions. You just made them.

Your right wingers are fucking nutters, they wouldn't win a single seat in our parliament. The fact that you guys have people like that in positions of power says a lot about you.

What does it say about me? I'd staple my face to your butt cheeks before I'd ever vote for a conservative again. What does it say about the U.S.? We have some really stupid people, but their grip on power is quickly fading. And, their rhetoric is the same as yours. They only deliver it in a more obviously offensive manner.

[ideologue08]

There was another poll done which shows 34 to 28 points in favour of gay marriage

Hmmm... Let's take a look at that survey... Does the question you are refering to ask people if they support same-sex marriage? Let's see how the lovely people at C4M worded the question...

Q.1 Do you agree or disagree with each of these statements?
Legalising same-sex marriage is important because keeping Civil Partnership and marriage separate and distinct worsens public attituded towards gay people

Do you see how it's a different fucking question?

Sorry about that my fault, I read the article wrong. The 34-28 poll was not regarding whether or not gay marriage should be legalised, it was regarding which of the two proposals (gay marriage bill, or plain packaging bill should be dropped), and more people voted for the gay marriage bill to be dropped.

Although thanks for digging up the survey. Some interesting things I found.

Q Given the controversy over legalising same-sex marriage it should be decided by a national referendum and not just a House of Commons vote 54% AGREE, 26% DISAGREE.

Q Marriage should continue to be defined as a life-long exclusive commitment between a man and a woman
vote 62% AGREE 28% DISAGREE

Make of that what you will...

[Tiberius]

Marriage should continue to be defined as a life-long exclusive commitment between a man and a woman

The amount of marriages that actually match this description is so low it's laughable that people still try to use it as a description of marriage.

Given the controversy over legalising same-sex marriage it should be decided by a national referendum and not just a House of Commons

I agree with this, but then I agree with referendums for practically every government decision. We have the technology these days, so I don't see why the people can't vote on every new law.

[ideologue08]

I know that if the current govt puts forward the bill, it will definitely pass the Commons and most likely the Lords as well. But that doesn't mean that we can't attempt to stall it, at least until the general election.

Stall all you want. It's only delaying the inevitable and will just make future generations hold you in even greater contempt.

Well, I can't really expect you to acknowledge or even understand any reasoning that opposes what you stand for. Sticking your fingers in your ears isn't how public debate is conducted in the UK, unlike your narrow-minded Senators, do-nothing Congress and stupid filibuster laws. Once a yank, always a yank.

You didn't offer any reasons to support your two assertions. You just made them.

Your right wingers are fucking nutters, they wouldn't win a single seat in our parliament. The fact that you guys have people like that in positions of power says a lot about you.

What does it say about me? I'd staple my face to your butt cheeks before I'd ever vote for a conservative again. What does it say about the U.S.? We have some really stupid people, but their grip on power is quickly fading. And, their rhetoric is the same as yours. They only deliver it in a more obviously offensive manner.

oh piss off. I already told you why, I'm not going to keep repeating it and expect a yank to understand something that they don't like. I'll tell you what's "just an assertion", gay people are entitled to be legally married in the UK.

The crazy people who have the majority in your lower house is an example of what kind of people you guys are; uncompromising, unreasoning demagogues who are always right no matter what. Your debating skills is no better than Ted Cruz's.

[rexbeccarox]

You never answered my question, ideologue08. What scares you about same-sex marriage?