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RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 20, 2013 at 3:54 pm
(May 20, 2013 at 3:47 pm)Raven Wrote: Quote:GC said: One that dies as an atheist will be spending eternity in hell, this is a reality that unbelief can not wipe away.
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. I spent 12 years in Catholic school.
So I'm covered.
That's the problem with you guys, your so smug about you got it all sewed up, even that handle you've given yourself. You remind me of this brother in high school - He had nothing to worry about, because he was "in the union". That was his way of putting it. He knew where he was going. Of course, according to him, you won't be going there, because you don't belong to the right denomination. Too bad. 
Everything you said is not found in scripture, please refrain from hearsay and use the Bible's content to prove your point, if you can't do that for any reason I will never consider what you say.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 20, 2013 at 3:56 pm
godschild Wrote:One that dies as an atheist will be spending eternity in hell, this is a reality that unbelief can not wipe away. I do not name a person nor point to a specific person, there is always time to change one's heart and mind.
I did not name you personally, however if it will please you I can. So if you missluckie26 continue on as you are you will spend eternity in hell, is that what you wanted to hear.
Hell threat # 400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.2, and 3
Whose going in circles again?
I find it highly telling that you have no reply for anything that I said, besides "you're mentally off". Take a look in the god and imagination thread and see who thinks who is 'off'.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
![[Image: tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif]](https://66.media.tumblr.com/5fb74c6d16622fb3dbb358509c9aec03/tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif)
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RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 20, 2013 at 4:14 pm
@ missluckie26
He can't help it. He's Jstrodel lite.
“To terrify children with the image of hell, to consider women an inferior creation—is that good for the world?”
― Christopher Hitchens
"That fear first created the gods is perhaps as true as anything so brief could be on so great a subject". - George Santayana
"If this is the best God can do, I'm not impressed". - George Carlin
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RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 20, 2013 at 4:19 pm
(May 20, 2013 at 4:14 pm)Raven Wrote: @ missluckie26
He can't help it. He's Jstrodel lite.
I think I gave jstrodel a kudo for the post where he said I'd go to hell and he'd be happy that I was burning. See, I don't have a problem with being told I'm going to hell. If that's what you believe, why wouldn't you warn me? Or worse, why would you act as if I wasn't for the sake of "being civil" in a forum full of people telling you that you worship a nonexistent creature that sounds like a malevolent asshole? I say, drop the gloves and let the heathens know! It makes you more human.
And besides, I know it isn't real, so what do I care? I have no problem with being told that I'm going to roast for all eternity because god is love, or however the story goes. Some people say that hell is separation from god. If that's the case, I'm in hell right now. And you know what? It's pretty fucking awesome.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 20, 2013 at 4:29 pm
(May 20, 2013 at 4:19 pm)Tonus Wrote: I think I gave jstrodel a kudo for the post where he said I'd go to hell and he'd be happy that I was burning. See, I don't have a problem with being told I'm going to hell. If that's what you believe, why wouldn't you warn me? Or worse, why would you act as if I wasn't for the sake of "being civil" in a forum full of people telling you that you worship a nonexistent creature that sounds like a malevolent asshole? I say, drop the gloves and let the heathens know! It makes you more human. You seem to be from the more sensible and rational Atheists on here. That's exactly what the Atheist Penn Jillette said very beautifully:
It's a shame the mods aren't that rational, one mention of hellfire and I'm threatened to be kicked off the forum for preaching or 'poe' haha
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RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 20, 2013 at 4:33 pm
(This post was last modified: May 20, 2013 at 4:34 pm by Raven.)
@ tonus :You've got a point. But the smarmy self-righteousness get to be a bit much at times.
“To terrify children with the image of hell, to consider women an inferior creation—is that good for the world?”
― Christopher Hitchens
"That fear first created the gods is perhaps as true as anything so brief could be on so great a subject". - George Santayana
"If this is the best God can do, I'm not impressed". - George Carlin
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RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 20, 2013 at 4:34 pm
Eh, when it's a freshly dropped lifelong indoctrinated fear then it sucks being told you're not in the club anymore so you're going to hell. The Only time I tell someone their god is a malicious bastard is when they've asked for it. There's a difference between defensiveness and offensiveness.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
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RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 20, 2013 at 4:47 pm
(May 20, 2013 at 4:34 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Eh, when it's a freshly dropped lifelong indoctrinated fear then it sucks being told you're not in the club anymore so you're going to hell. The Only time I tell someone their god is a malicious bastard is when they've asked for it. There's a difference between defensiveness and offensiveness.
I very much hope that my having said that he couldn't help felt to you like I was saying you should not tell him off. He certainly deserved what you said to him. Rather I did not want what he was saying to get to you. IOW, don't let it bother you. He's so sure he has the answer. Guess he wants to save us all.
I know how it feels to be "not in the club anymore so you're going to hell". One sister is a nun and the other is in charge of her parish's religious education. Neither will speak to me anymore.
It REALLY sucks being told that. But they're the ones with the problem, not us.
“To terrify children with the image of hell, to consider women an inferior creation—is that good for the world?”
― Christopher Hitchens
"That fear first created the gods is perhaps as true as anything so brief could be on so great a subject". - George Santayana
"If this is the best God can do, I'm not impressed". - George Carlin
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RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 20, 2013 at 5:01 pm
Aw that's quite a shame, on their part Raven. You seem like a good person, I'd be distraught if I disowned my own family for their beliefs/nonbeliefs.
And no, I know quite well what you were saying 
As for saving us all.. imagine that he's a dude in a boat, and we're all out in open ocean swimming for our lives. Then he's like, "Believe the boat can save you or you'll die!"
Not. Helpful.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
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RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 20, 2013 at 5:54 pm
(May 20, 2013 at 3:25 pm)Godschild Wrote: ...an atheist will be spending eternity in hell, this is a reality that unbelief can not wipe away. Since I got myself into a pickle over this idea, I think it best to introduce some of the possible loopholes to this. The first is an RC idea: "perfect contrition". If a person recognizes that they are a sinner and in need of help then it is conceivable that God could show mercy on those who have not yet accepted Christ, but yearn for absolution. The second is Christ-incognito. Although a person believes themselves to be an atheist, they still value and believe in both goodness and truth. Following death they may be enlightened to learn that they were following Christ after all since He is both Goodness and Truth. Finally, there are the remnants of faith. Here an atheist may publicly profess his disbelief, but unknown to himself a lingering faith guides his life from within. Of course these are highly speculative and not explicitly presented in the Scriptures, but I think possible. So while the stubbornly godless who confirm that belief in their lives (like the anti-theists and militant atheist types) will certainly go to hell, I would be reluctant to say that to anyone else because in the end, only God knows how He will decide.
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