In a world without God...

[Drich]

Err... Written records usually debunk prophesy Drippy

it depends on who they are written by. The Egyptians are notorious for expunging or simply not recording defeat. They've even wiped out whole pryamids of rulers they did not like, and attempted to erase away any signs of the One God that ruler had the nation worship.. If there exile was for only fourty years, that very generation could have wiped their own shame from history. Now add the fact that the Babylon did not make it to modern times (as they were the one to defeat eygpt) It would be logical that we would know nothing about Egypt's defeat.

History is written by the victors and maintained by who is left. Meaning your 'written record' is only as reliable as those who orginally wrote it, and every single generation dedication to perserve it from that time to this. Neither of which would be in egypt's favor to perserve this defeat.

In short you dont know, what you don't know.

[Faith No More]

The same physics that braking systems work off of?

How is that even a proper response to what I said? You said letting people get hit by buses is a learning situation, and I replied that we would know regardless due to our understanding of physics. Then you reply with this? WTF? Did you just decide to phone this one in?

[Mystical]

And what if you're the best son in the world, live as good as you can and meet righteous standards..and your father who loves you so much doesn't even bother showing up to your deathbed after a lifetime of faith based allowances that you've given him for not showing up your entire squalid, radically suffering life?

But we are not good sons or daughters... Matter of fact most of us will not even admit we have a problem, and yet want our heavenly Father to enable us to live the lifestyle we want to live, by acknoweledging us and granting wishes when we ask them of Him.

Drich, I get what you're saying. But I wasn't 'most'. I didn't consider myself special, but a servant. I was happy and content with dying if it served no purpose but his. My lifestyle was survival of my afflictions--afflictions that I thanked him for each day. I've always been the follow directions unwaveringly sort, and that I did. I made sure minute to minute that I wasn't at fault, by monitoring my thoughts, measuring the purity of my intent, and begging for forgiveness at the most minor of infractions. My mind belonged to god not to me. I have nothing to deny about those times, I was as devoted and pure a daughter of god that one could be. The faith of a child can move a mountain bit was what i lived by per example. I had banished any evil from my life, begged for forgiveness for my inequities, and shunned completely the ungodly acts I'd partaken as a teenager. I was as straight as one can get on that path and he was nowhere to be seen, the entire time, besides my mind.

Seems like the cruelest thing someone could possibly do to me. If I get to death to find this is so, I will have no problems telling god he's Evil.

I doubt that. for your eyes will be open to the self righteous standard you would have to use to judge God evil. (God is only evil if you use your own standard of good and evil.) To which begs the question what makes your self righteous standard have any value what so ever? What authority what power do you have to enact your want for good and evil?

God is evil in my eyes for a lot of reasons. But I find one in particular, at his own admission, quite troubling for the mere fact of its contradictory nature. The verse about god defining innocents. Babies are. Too tired to look up the verse atm bur youre so well versed im sure you know. God orders their heads bashed in and their bodies ripped from their mothers wombs. I honestly don't care if you believe such is justified. I don't, and if that just means I have more morality than god then so be it.

I find it ridiculous when I'm told that there are things on this earth we are tied to that we must give up. Why is there an automatic assumption that we are tied to anything different than you? When the same things (love for your spouse for instance) are lifted up as most righteous within your faith. What makes your love for yours any different than my love for mine? If anything, my love for mine is stronger because I put him first above all, not second behind god.

When someone asks this question I think back to 80's role playing Games for the Orginal Nintendo system (bear with When you first start out playing a game like dragon warrior or final fantasy you start with a character and character points or attribute point, which you can use to customize your character. For instance you guy has attribute catagories like Strength, Magic abilities, Stamina, Dexterity etc... And you are given a finite amount of Attribute points to accredit to your level 1 character. Usally it was just enough to give your guy 2 points in every category, or 10 character points in one category.

Now you ask How can I say my love for family be greater than your love for family if you put all of your character points into family first and I put my points in God first?

Quite simply put, God levels me up and my capacity for love is now greater than what I could love if I were to do it alone. Instead of maxing out at level 10. God has given me a level 40 love, (25 for Him and 15 for my family) that extended well beyond anything I could have ever thought possible. (As level 10 love was everyththing I thought possible before)

Quite literally I have God's love to give in addition to my own, and His love extends well beyond the point system I used to illustrate this precept.




To those who are faithful to what they have
been given, they will be given more. God gives us "X" amount of love to give (as we all have limits on our love even if we say it is unconditional) If we give it all back what He gives in return far exceeds anything we can do on our own.

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Eh I found a power multiplier in my mortal love. There is no forever in our eyes, so we love harder and appreciate eachother more. No god necessary. I don't understand what you're saying about what god does for your amount of love that you aren't providing yourself and could do without god?

[LastPoet]

How do you know that what ezekiel recorded was going to happen to egypt did not happen?

How do you know that Odysseus, as Homer recorded, getting into Circe's island did not happen?

Hell that story probably isn't as heavily edited as the 'good book', but Drippy, you are getting desperate. You don't ask people if X did not happen, you ask people if something did happen.

[orogenicman]

Err... Written records usually debunk prophesy Drippy

it depends on who they are written by. The Egyptians are notorious for expunging or simply not recording defeat. They've even wiped out whole pryamids of rulers they did not like, and attempted to erase away any signs of the One God that ruler had the nation worship.. If there exile was for only fourty years, that very generation could have wiped their own shame from history. Now add the fact that the Babylon did not make it to modern times (as they were the one to defeat eygpt) It would be logical that we would know nothing about Egypt's defeat.

History is written by the victors and maintained by who is left. Meaning your 'written record' is only as reliable as those who orginally wrote it, and every single generation dedication to perserve it from that time to this. Neither of which would be in egypt's favor to perserve this defeat.

In short you dont know, what you don't know.

Do you have a citation for those claims?

[Drich]

How do you know that Odysseus, as Homer recorded, getting into Circe's island did not happen?

..Because the Author did not repersent it as being an actual event.

Hell that story probably isn't as heavily edited as the 'good book',

Do some reserach on it, Homers story is not complete, it's not even his. It's based on 400 years of oral tradition, that was written in a poetic form.

but Drippy, you are getting desperate. You don't ask people if X did not happen, you ask people if something did happen.

I'm make statement in order to draw out discussion. If something seems easy for you to counter to the point where you make a point, then what I've done works.

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it depends on who they are written by. The Egyptians are notorious for expunging or simply not recording defeat. They've even wiped out whole pryamids of rulers they did not like, and attempted to erase away any signs of the One God that ruler had the nation worship.. If there exile was for only fourty years, that very generation could have wiped their own shame from history. Now add the fact that the Babylon did not make it to modern times (as they were the one to defeat eygpt) It would be logical that we would know nothing about Egypt's defeat.

History is written by the victors and maintained by who is left. Meaning your 'written record' is only as reliable as those who orginally wrote it, and every single generation dedication to perserve it from that time to this. Neither of which would be in egypt's favor to perserve this defeat.

In short you dont know, what you don't know.

Do you have a citation for those claims?

http://ohr.edu/2053
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/moses.htm
http://www.egyptpast.com/history-1.html

[Drich]

Drich, I get what you're saying. But I wasn't 'most'. I didn't consider myself special, but a servant. I was happy and content with dying if it served no purpose but his. My lifestyle was survival of my afflictions--afflictions that I thanked him for each day. I've always been the follow directions unwaveringly sort, and that I did. I made sure minute to minute that I wasn't at fault, by monitoring my thoughts, measuring the purity of my intent, and begging for forgiveness at the most minor of infractions. My mind belonged to god not to me. I have nothing to deny about those times, I was as devoted and pure a daughter of god that one could be. The faith of a child can move a mountain bit was what i lived by per example. I had banished any evil from my life, begged for forgiveness for my inequities, and shunned completely the ungodly acts I'd partaken as a teenager. I was as straight as one can get on that path and he was nowhere to be seen, the entire time, besides my mind.

I am the oppsite of just about everything you listed here. Why? Not because I want to be rebellious or to not conform. It's because we have been commanded to Love God with all of our being, and for me I can't do the greatest command we have, and follow that typical perfect christian model. If I were to do these thing my worship and praise would be empty and meaningless. One of the things we must understand is that when we worship according to the Perfect Chriatian model we are often times not worshiping God. We are worshiping christianity. Don't confuse worshiping the method of worship with worshiping the one we have been called to worship.

I go to God "Just as I am." Grace covers the rest.

God is evil in my eyes for a lot of reasons. But I find one in particular, at his own admission, quite troubling for the mere fact of its contradictory nature. The verse about god defining innocents. Babies are. Too tired to look up the verse atm bur youre so well versed im sure you know. God orders their heads bashed in and their bodies ripped from their mothers wombs. I honestly don't care if you believe such is justified. I don't, and if that just means I have more morality than god then so be it.

This is what I mean. You judge good and evil by given acts. In God's economy the act itself holds no value. It is what He tells you to do, and whether or not you do it, makes a thing good or evil.

Eh I found a power multiplier in my mortal love. There is no forever in our eyes, so we love harder and appreciate eachother more. No god necessary. I don't understand what you're saying about what god does for your amount of love that you aren't providing yourself and could do without god?

I cant find it but I did a series of posts on my wifes addiction. In short, about half way through her recovery, my love for her ended. All that was left was the reflection of God's grace and mercy he had for me in my life, was being extended to her. (As God forgave me and gave me another chance, I in turn was obligated to forgive her and give her another chance. So long as she did not exceed the bounds of the vows of our marriage I was tied to her.

Durning the worst of it her mother and father washed their hands (as did my Father, my mother still spoke with me.) We say our earthly love is unconditional, but it is not. All love has a begining and an end point. (Not confusing love with codependancy.)

God's love is conditional, but once one meets the condition H[/quote]e set that person will find his love to be boundless.

[Bad Wolf]

This is what I mean. You judge good and evil by given acts. In God's economy the act itself holds no value. It is what He tells you to do, and whether or not you do it, makes a thing good or evil.

So if God told you to rape a little girl, would you do it? I mean if he asks you to do it and you do it, so its good right? Or if you don't do it, its evil? How exactly does this work? And don't dodge this question by saying: God would never ask me to do this. He told Abraham to kill his son, asking you to rape a little girl is not a stretch at all.

[littleendian]

This is what I mean. You judge good and evil by given acts. In God's economy the act itself holds no value. It is what He tells you to do, and whether or not you do it, makes a thing good or evil.

Has God ever told you what to do or what not to do?

[ ] Yes: Please describe, I'm sure there's a reasonable explanation for the phenomenon.

[ ] No: How can you be so sure about all those things you only know from an old book of which you don't know the author and certainly not his intentions?

[pocaracas]

Oh nonononononono
You're not getting off that easy!
This thread has the title "In a world without god".
So the working hypothesis is "there is no god".
Under this hypothesis, any holy book is automatically man-made fiction.
"bible says" has no bearing whatsoever.

How do you answer the questions, under this hypothesis that you yourself included in this thread?

Someone either a little smarter or simply a little quicker than you already tried to take my thread using the same premise.. (Do and try to keep up.) in the end their effort fail like yours, because he like you qualified my efforts on my thread as mine. as such they (my efforts or my thread) are not subject to Your rules. :p

In other words just because I ask a question does not mean I can not ask another or change what you only Perceive to be the purpose of this thread.

You failed at the only Jim Jefferies commandment...

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