Seen Today at Local Pool

[festive1]

I had to google "haram." It can mean sheltered, but it's also derived to form harem... I think this explains so much about Islam in general...
I agree, Summer. I've noticed our neighbor whose bedroom window faces our bedroom windows always have their blinds drawn...

[thesummerqueen]

Hehe. Our window faces the courtyard of a retirement condo, which is only about 4 floors and we're on the 8th, so lord knows if or what those poor old people have seen...

[festive1]

I wouldn't be surprised if you'd caused a couple of coronaries!
After having kids and breastfeeding them... I'm so not fussed. I was up until the first kid, but that changed how I view bodies in general.

[Minimalist]

Sluts.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

pools and muslims, ah, the memories. back when i was living in a muslim country muslims would swim with normal clothes on. It's crazy. The rest of us would be in swimsuits and they'll swim with clothes on. The stricter ones only swim when us non muslims aren't there. But they don't wear swimsuits either.

I'm very sympathetic to muslim women. Even if they believe in that shit. Because they face pressure at home from the male members of their family. Even in western countries. Watched a documentary on honour killing. I put myself in their situations and tried to think of ways where I could've saved myself, couldn't come up with anything. So I am sympathetic to them. I know quite a few muslim women. That's why I have no patience for muslim men or feminists saying things like "the burka is a choice". Disgusts me. Entire populations of women are forced to put them on, it's not a choice for them.

And yea i think most societies allow women to wear whatever they like under the burka. A fact I think someone once used to support his point that they're really free and permissive.

The way their minds work, it's like they live in a whole other imaginary place.

[NoraBrimstone]

Did she tell you that that isn't what she wanted to wear? Maybe it was her choice. If someone wishes to cover themselves from head to foot in hot weather, that's their business. lol

At my work we get a lot of Arabs coming through on their way to Bicester Village, especially during summer when a lot of people from Saudi Arabia (especially their royalty) come over to London to spend the summer while it's too hot back home; at that time of year around 2/3 of our customers are Arabs. Some of the women wear a full Burqa, some don't. Granted, when they're back home they probably are forced to wear them, but when they're in the UK they exercise more freedom if they so wish. To say that all the women who wear them are forced to is completely ignorant. Oooh, here's an example for you, a girl my sister was friends with when we were kids now wears a Burqa, her parents don't like her wearing it and so does her husband.... Who is supposedly forcing her?
While I'm totally against women being told what they have to wear, I'm just as against women being told what they shouldn't wear.

(Strangest thing I ever saw though, was a woman in a Burqua buying a pork Sausage Roll.)

[festive1]

But is it a choice? I'm not sure. I can't imagine opting to wear a tent to a swimming pool, maybe my imagination needs some exercise...
I chatted up several people at the pool, of various backgrounds. But isn't part of the idea of wearing a Burqa to "other" the person wearing it? I understand the link between suffering and piety. The more uncomfortable one is for the sake of their religion, the more devout they are seen as being. Aside from her kids, I didn't notice anyone speaking to this woman. That's kind of sad and must be lonely. How does one even approach and speak to a woman wearing a Burqa without being potentially offensive? "Hey! How are you? It sure is hot today, isn't it?" Is kind of inappropriate. Just the "Hey! How are you?" Line is too familiar for speaking with someone you don't know. Plus, being in a bathing suit myself, I'd feel self-conscious that even my manner of dress would be taken as offensive.
But is it a totally free choice? Example, I've taken all of the boys' jeans and put them away for the summer. They choose shorts to wear everyday, but that really isn't a choice, is it? Same for the woman in the Burqa... I'm sure she has regular clothes, but when she leaves her home she dons the Burqa. Is she free to wear something else? Would her husband beat her if she didn't wear a Burqa? Is she a devout Muslim, moreso than her lenient husband, and opts to wear it to show her devotion to her faith? Has she been indoctrinated since childhood and believes she must wear a Burqa? Don't know...
Another question: Why is it necessary to other oneself so completely for the sake of one's faith? Especially when the issue of women's rights/value is such a hot button topic, particularly in regards to Islam.

[thesummerqueen]

The burqa isn't necessarily to "other" the woman, although it produces that effect, but to keep men from lusting after her by hiding her shape.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

Oh I have no doubt that for some of the women in western countries they wear it because it's a choice. They annoy me because I KNOW it's a choice for them. I'm saying it's poor form for them to do this. I'm not telling them what to wear, it's just what they're wearing and the point they make while doing so, to me, is disregarding what is going on with the majority of the women in muslim countries. It's like saying, yea, bad things happen to you if you don't wear the burka, but since you're voiceless I'm going to go ahead and wear it and say it's a choice because people like me have been getting weird looks from westerners. What is so difficult with saying "my religion requires me to do this", instead of saying, "it's my choice"? Not sure if it should, but it makes a difference to me, perhaps because this issue is quite close to home for me.

A muslim explained to me the idea behind the burka being that you wear it and you don't use makeup so that men won't judge you by your looks. To which I responded that muslim men who believe in that are judging them by their looks, if they don't wear it i doubt they'll think very nicely of them. I've heard of plenty of justifications for the burka (from muslims, no nonmuslims) saying that it's modesty, that if women don't wear them they'll tempt men into raping them. I think it's disgusting to put the blame on women when men judge them by their looks and when they're raped.

Muslims constantly find what we wear offensive, like festive1 says, she felt like her swimsuit was offensive to someone in burka. Why wouldn't she? if you spend some time reading or listening to what their religion preaches, it says people who wear swimsuits are haram. Do people go up to them and tell them they shouldn't tell women what to wear and what not to wear?

In response to women's right question: feminists stand up for women, until those women are muslims, then it's a cultural issue. The burka will never be something I'll put on my child, but I think it's not such a bad thing for theirs.

[Doubting Thomas]

I really wonder how many of these women would wear these types of get ups if they weren't pressured by their culture...
I mean, she's in America, obviously if she had worn a modest swimsuit, no one would have even noticed and I wouldn't have posted this.

She may have been brainwashed enough to actually be embarrassed if she'd worn anything less than a burka in public. Kind of like how if you took an Amish woman and gave her a bikini to wear at the pool.