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Was the original quran not the same as the quran today
#1
Was the original quran not the same as the quran today



I have read about 9 chapters, but according to these guys, they say that much of the original quran was burnt, or atleast the remaining evidence, so they just used what they found and compiled them into a manuscript, also according to muhammad's top teacher "Utman", by reading that of Sahid is like being guilty of deceit.

Otherwise, i hope we can have a nice warm discussion on what you think.
I like when things are relaxed and chill, not such a sturring person, even if the question can be. But it's cool to hear.



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#2
RE: Was the original quran not the same as the quran today
I had never heard this particular story but you may find this of some interest.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...an/304024/

Quote:Some of the parchment pages in the Yemeni hoard seemed to date back to the seventh and eighth centuries A.D., or Islam's first two centuries—they were fragments, in other words, of perhaps the oldest Korans in existence. What's more, some of these fragments revealed small but intriguing aberrations from the standard Koranic text. Such aberrations, though not surprising to textual historians, are troublingly at odds with the orthodox Muslim belief that the Koran as it has reached us today is quite simply the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God.

What is most amusing about the Sana find is that what they uncovered mimics a jewish talmudic tradition in which religious papers could not be discarded but had to be buried. Wouldn't that fry their asses today!
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#3
RE: Was the original quran not the same as the quran today
Great Min thanks.

Reading the article it appears that everything in the Quar'an is just a child's copying (poorly done) of a parental edict. An Arabianisation of monotheism that seemed to be working well to control the masses else where in the levant
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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#4
RE: Was the original quran not the same as the quran today
So religions are man-made, man-changed, man-maintained...

What else is new?
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#5
RE: Was the original quran not the same as the quran today
Unlike New Testament manuscript traditions, things here are different when it comes to the Quranic manuscript tradition. That is because, thanks to the parallel oral transmission, the variations which come about at the secondary copying stage are limited and restricted to specific manuscripts. They are easily identifiable and do not spread like wild fire once a manuscript is copied and recopied. In sharp contrast, due to a lack of a rigid oral transmission tradition, mistakes in NT manuscript spread rapidly from one to another, with new mistakes coming about in the copying stage. In the case of the Quran, however, that is less likely to happen because of the widespread memorization of the Quran.

One has to remember that written manuscripts are over-rated. There is a book called "Misquoting Jesus" and it addresses the issue of common misconceptions about old manuscripts, which are: (1) Just because a manuscript is older, does not mean that it is more authentic and (2) if there is a variation, then it there is no way to tell which is more authentic.

So, the main problem with manuscripts is that they are written by a single person or two. It will always be susceptible to error in writing and error in reading (in addition to the potential for forging). So, it is in this light that the Muslim system of preservation of knowledge shines. It never depended on written documents only and always depended on the dual system of both writing and mass memorization. In the case of hadiths, there was also writing and memorization as well, but not on the mass scale.

The Prophet encouraged his companions to learn each verse that was revealed and transmit it to others. The Quran was also required to be recited regularly as an act of worship, especially during the five daily prayers (salah). Through these means, many repeatedly heard passages from the revelation recited to them, memorized them and used them in prayer. Not only were the words of the Quran memorized, but also their pronunciation, later which formed into a science in itself called "Tajweed." This science meticulously elucidates how each letter is to be pronounced, as well as the word as a whole, both in context of other letters and words. Today, we can find people of all different languages able to recite the Quran as if they are Arabs themselves living during the time of the Prophet (pbuh).

Another reason why memorization of the Quran was widespread is because the Quran was being revealed over a period of 23 years, each verse supporting each other, and by the death of the Prophet, Islam engulfed the Arabian peninsula with Muslims reciting the Quran five times a day in the mosque all throughout these areas, and then within a few short years later Islam engulfed Persia, the Roman Empire, and North Africa with Muslims reciting the Quran five times a day in their prayers.

See this: Preservation of the Quran (part 1 of 2): Memorization

Also, here are segments from a lecture where the speaker, Jamal Badawi, goes through the 3 main stages of the Quran's compilation (i.e. from the Prophet's time, to Abu Bakr, and then to Uthman), while at the same time using some of the internal and external evidences in respect to the Quran and also by using authentic historical proofs to support them.


There have been many revisionist scholars and Christian scholars (like the ones mentioned in Min's post, where the article that he linked to refers to several Christian scholars such as Puin, Luxemberg, Crone, Michael Cook, and all that) who cunningly tried to attack the preservation of the Quran under the guise of objective analysis, and yet most of their work has been widely discredited even by the by the academic community. For example, as Gerhard Bowering, a professor of Islamic Studies at Yale University, writes: "Reviewing these recent studies on the Qur'an mainly published during the last decade, it is clear that, despite the clamor in the press, no major breakthrough in constructing the Qur'an has been achieved. The ambitious projects of Lüling and Luxenberg lack decisive evidence and can reach no further than the realm of possibility and plausibility." (Recent Research on the Construction of the Quran p 81, in The Quran in its Historical Context)
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#6
RE: Was the original quran not the same as the quran today
Quote:things here are different when it comes to the Quranic manuscript tradition.

Special Pleading, Rayaan.
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#7
RE: Was the original quran not the same as the quran today
The Quran has not been altered by any human being and there is no different version of the Quran in the world today with one word different.
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#8
RE: Was the original quran not the same as the quran today
(November 16, 2013 at 8:20 pm)Sleepy Wrote: The Quran has not been altered by any human being and there is no different version of the Quran in the world today with one word different.

Quote: Such aberrations, though not surprising to textual historians, are troublingly at odds with the orthodox Muslim belief that the Koran as it has reached us today is quite simply the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God.

Thanks for providing evidence that you are a flaming idiot.
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#9
RE: Was the original quran not the same as the quran today
So which verses have been changed by humans? Lol. Good luck!
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#10
RE: Was the original quran not the same as the quran today
All of them were written by "humans," bozo.

Try to follow the point, huh?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/402793/GerdR-P...hung1-1999
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